[Cynnabar] The Campaign to End Name Uniqueness

Shoshana Jackson shoshigana at yahoo.com
Wed May 19 15:03:39 EDT 2010


Hi, all-

Currently, if someone wants to register a similar name, it must have the addition of a component, removal of a component or at least one different component.  The following are all clear of one another:

William Baker
William Smith the Baker
William Baker the Smith
William Smith of London
William Baker of Cynnabar

The trouble arises mostly when someone wants to register an international variant of some name.  Names such as Elizabeth, Isabel, Elspeth and Lisabetta are all considered to be in conflict with one another, so the following are all in conflict, even though they aren't precisely the same neither in sound nor appearance:

Elizabeth Lyon
Isabel Leon
Elspeth Lion
Lisabetta Leone

This dramatically limits the kinds of names someone can register.  I think it's kind of bogus that someone wanting a perfectly legitimate early Spanish persona who desires the simple name "Isabel Leon" cannot register it just because the English gal, the Norman gal or the Italian gal got to the name construction first.  Why is it that THAT lady gets to have the historically accurate name for her culture, but my new client, Isabel Leon, needs to do something like adding a name element (and thereby decreasing the historic accuracy) to her name in order to get it registered?

As the Rules for Submission stand currently, anybody wishing to register a similar name may request a ONE-TIME Permission to Conflict from someone currently registered.  (I have had this happen more often with armory, but it is also possible with names.)  Some people are very willing to grant this permission, others are not.  What the CENU movement aims to do is have people who ARE WILLING to grant these permissions submit a BLANKET form, which says, "I allow anybody to conflict with my name/armory, and they don't have to contact me individually."  This would allow Isabel Leon to register her name since it is not identical to Elizabeth Lyon.

Generating historically accurate names is more difficult than it seems (and FAR more difficult than it used to be within the SCA) because a) the name should be entirely in one language (while the SCA will register names with, for example, a French element and and English element) because that's how things were done in period and b) the name pools were much more restricted than our name pools are today.  You just didn't have people with first names like Ashley, Taylor, Meredith or Liam.  Most men and women within a given region had about seven tremendously popular names and a handful of other names that were common.  (You know, John, Thomas and William, and Elizabeth, Mary and Anne)  Since the accuracy of a name is actually somewhat proportional to how common the name was at any given time... the SCA's registration rule that a name must, by its individuality, be UN-common in some way, pushes a name into a funny area of not-quite-as-accurate-as-it-could-be.

Again - this permission is entirely VOLUNTARY.  If you are not interested in allowing someone to conflict with your name, you do not have to grant this permission.  I will not try to goad you into giving it, nor will I make you feel like a jerk for wanting to preserve your name's uniqueness.

 
Hope this helps-
  Simcha


________________________________

The pure righteous people do not complain against wickedness but add righteousness. They do not complain against disbelief but add faith. They do not complain against ignorance but add wisdom.

-Rabbi Abraham Isaac Kook 




________________________________
From: Aaron Elkiss <aelkiss at umich.edu>
To: Randy Weiser <randy_weiser at yahoo.com>
Cc: Barony of Cynnabar <barony at cynnabar.org>; Shoshana Jackson <shoshigana at yahoo.com>
Sent: Wed, May 19, 2010 2:24:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Cynnabar] The Campaign to End Name Uniqueness

Don't think anybody is saying you have to if you don't want to... 

But, would if bother you if somebody wanted to be Andrew Faunce of Somewhereelse? Would that even be prohibited under the current rules? If so that seems silly and in need of fixing, but if there can be a John Smith of Somewhere and a Johnne Smythe of Somewhereelse, or a William Black the Baker and Wyllyam Blacke the Cobbler, then what exactly is the issue? Now and then, people find ways to disambiguate between people with the same name; if you have to officially register the disambiguation that seems reasonable. Is the problem that the disambiguation isn't actually registerable, e.g. Johnne Smythe of Somewhere isn't documentable or something?

-Aaron


On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 1:56 PM, Randy Weiser <randy_weiser at yahoo.com> wrote:

Being one of the "old fartes" who has been in the SCA since the 1970's, I find this trend to be bothersome.  To me, it smacks of laziness - the idea of a name in the SCA is something that is YOURS.  Yes, there were other variations of it, and variations of it are fine, but I don't want 400 Andrew Faunces of Sharsted running around!  What happens if someone gets banished and has that name?  Will the other 399 of us who have it have to be banished as well?
>I chose my name to reflect my family's heritage - the Faunces can trace their ancestry back to a vassel of William the Conqueror, and I'm VERY proud of that!
>I'm going to be one of those curmudgeons who states, VERY LOUDLY AND PROUDLY, thank you very much, that if someone in the SCA is taking the time to research a UNIQUE persona, the name should be also researched carefully!  As someone who has done Name Heraldry at Pennsic, I can guarantee that this WILL give Heralds FITS if that starts happening!
>HARRUMPH!
>YIS,
>Lord Andrew Faunce of Sharsted - the ONE AND ONLY BEARER OF THAT NAME, THANKYOUVERYMUCH!!!!
>
>
> 
> "Capitalization is the difference between 
>helping your Uncle Jack off a horse & 
>helping your uncle jack off a horse."                                                    
>
>--- On Wed, 5/19/10, Shoshana Jackson <shoshigana at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>From: Shoshana Jackson <shoshigana at yahoo.com>
>>Subject: [Cynnabar] The Campaign to End Name Uniqueness
>>>>To: "Barony of Cynnabar" <barony at cynnabar.org>
>>Date: Wednesday, May 19, 2010, 10:59 AM
>>
>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>Greetings, all!
>>
>>Per the meeting minutes:  Campaign to End Name Uniqueness
>>Our Herald says that SCA-wide, members are being asked to allow other people with similar persona names to register that similar name.  More discussion to follow.
>>
>>There is a push with some of the senior Heralds both within (and without?) the College of Arms to get rid of the SCA registration custom that a name must be substantially different (both in sound AND appearance) from any other registered name in order to be "clear of conflict." Example: a person could not register the name "Jehan Smythe" because it would be too similar in pronunciation and spelling to "John Smith," if that were already registered.
>>
>>While this appeals to our modern sense of
>> individuality and has many supporters who say names OUGHT to be unique to avoid confusion in places like the lists or or at court or on award scrolls, this goes against historic accuracy - there were MANY "John Smith" variations even within one town!  This SCA-imposed uniqueness makes it so people cannot (necessarily) register a name that is both a) the name they want and b) historically accurate.
>>
>>More information can be found here: http://medievalscotland.org/sca/cenu.shtml
>>
>>This project is entirely VOLUNTARY.  The SCA at large does not mandate that anyone allow Permission to Conflict with a registered name.  I, personally, very much believe in this project as I think name uniqueness is silly.  To that end, I will be contacting as many people as I can find (realizing that some have moved out of our borders) from the Cynnabar
>> OP and requesting a Blanket Permission to Conflict form be sent in to the College of Heralds.  (It is also attached, if some of you want to get right on this!)
>>
>>Again, this project is VOLUNTARY and anyone has the right to preserve the uniqueness of your name.  I urge you, however, before you decide, please read the material at the above link.
>>
>>I am open to any questions, comments or concerns you may have.
>>
>>Yours, in service to a slightly more historically accurate dream-
>>  Chaya-Simcha
>>
>> 
________________________________
 >>
>>The pure righteous people do not complain against wickedness but add righteousness. They do not complain against disbelief but add faith. They do not complain against ignorance but add wisdom.
>>
>>-Rabbi Abraham Isaac Kook 
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>>
>>
>>
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>>http://lists.cynnabar.org/listinfo/barony
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>
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