[Cynnabar] Payments to the Kingdom
Constance Bridge
iiacnaib at hotmail.com
Wed Feb 8 00:49:43 UTC 2012
Good gentles all, I am writing in response to the concern stating that the barony (and by extension the kingdoms) were not given sufficient time or notice to come up with the funds to settle the claim against the SCA. As I understand the information provided on the SCA website, we were given as much notice as could be humanly managed. It was the COURT that set the deadline not our corporate officers. Although the legal system moves at a snail's pace when we need it to work, they expect others to jump when they say jump. We have no control over the legal system and how it works but we do have control over how we respond to it. I say let's be true Cynnabarbarians and give our typical above and beyond response. Let's give $1200 simply because we can and we know its right to do so.Yours in serviceBianca
> From: barony-request at cynnabar.org
> Subject: Barony Digest, Vol 28, Issue 25
> To: barony at cynnabar.org
> Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 01:08:53 +0000
>
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> Today's Topics:
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> 1. Reminder: Vocal Music Practice @ Thu Feb 9 7pm - 9pm
> (Cynnabar Music and Dance) (Google Calendar)
> 2. Re: BoC - Settlement funding discussion (Monique Rio)
> 3. Re: BoC - Settlement funding discussion (Dennis Higgins)
> 4. Re: BoC - Settlement funding discussion (Greg Less)
> 5. Re: BoC - Settlement funding discussion (Kelly Carnahan)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2012 00:00:00 +0000
> From: Google Calendar <calendar-notification at google.com>
> To: Barony of Cynnabar <barony at cynnabar.org>
> Subject: [Cynnabar] Reminder: Vocal Music Practice @ Thu Feb 9 7pm -
> 9pm (Cynnabar Music and Dance)
> Message-ID: <20cf307f3492b0545504b8689379 at google.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed";
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>
> This is a reminder for:
>
> Title: Vocal Music Practice
> Contact:
>
> Singing Mistress
> Jadwiga Krzyzanowska
> singing.AT.cynnabar.DOT.org
> When: Thu Feb 9 7pm ? 9pm Eastern Time
> Where: Home of Lord Aaron and Lady Jadwiga, 1430 Pontiac Trail, Ann Arbor,
> MI
> Calendar: Cynnabar Music and Dance
> Who:
> * barony at cynnabar.org - creator
>
> Event details:
> https://www.google.com/calendar/event?action=VIEW&eid=ZW5xbzVtNXI3NTk2Z3NzYXByNDByOGdrM2tfMjAxMjAyMTBUMDAwMDAwWiA4cjE3cDBybWFjMmVydGFtMGxnZ2FkMTFnc0Bn
>
> Invitation from Google Calendar: https://www.google.com/calendar/
>
> You are receiving this email at the account barony at cynnabar.org because you
> set a reminder for this event on the calendar Cynnabar Music and Dance.
>
> You can change your reminders for specific events in the event details page
> in https://www.google.com/calendar/.
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2012 19:05:19 -0500
> From: Monique Rio <mrio at umich.edu>
> To: Greg Less <greg.less at gmail.com>
> Cc: Barony of Cynnabar <barony at cynnabar.org>
> Subject: Re: [Cynnabar] BoC - Settlement funding discussion
> Message-ID:
> <CAPY5N8UY4Z35E8tnaX7VPQ=oUd4Cxu3Qx6NSrM_aDRz5HJPB5A at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 6:57 PM, Greg Less <greg.less at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> 2) We're telling Kingdom and Corporate that it's OK to spring
> >> mandatory payments without a month's notice. DUDE that's not cool. If
> >> they'd told us a month in advance we could have, within policy,
> >> decided as a group to give them more money at the given time.
> >>
> >
> > Actually, we are telling the judge that it is okay to tell us that if we
> > don't give the victims their settlement money by the deadline he set...
> >
>
> I wouldn't know because we haven't had a meeting to discuss it.
>
> I'm not saying we shouldn't give the minimum. I'm not saying we
> shouldn't give more in the future. I'm saying there's no reason (other
> than appearances) why we need to give above and beyond before we've
> gone through due process.
>
> -Jadzia
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2012 19:24:00 -0500
> From: "Dennis Higgins" <mortisfan at comcast.net>
> To: "'Barony of Cynnabar'" <barony at cynnabar.org>
> Subject: Re: [Cynnabar] BoC - Settlement funding discussion
> Message-ID: <035301cce5f7$f4904480$ddb0cd80$@net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> You're not crazy. But here is how I see things based on your points.
>
> First, the 18% of 2010 is required by every single group in the SCA (in the
> states) due to a unprecedented lawsuit over a horrible incident. There is no
> red flag to me. A red flag would indicate foul play or trickery. There is
> none of that here. SCA corporate is being as open and forthcoming with all
> the information it can as best it can.
>
> 1) We are not throwing away our policy. Our policy states that "The
> seneschal can request an expedited expenditure [bypassing the 3 meetings]
> without prior group approval, if the situation warrants it". We're making
> that request here and discussing it on the list trying to get everyone's
> input on this.
>
> 2) As far as I know, this is the only time Kingdom or Corporate has required
> a mandatory payment. Not every group requires a month long approval process
> either so there is no way for Kingdom/Corporate to know our group normally
> requires a month. We pay the minimum or more, we still pay. Do you really
> think that Kingdom and/or Corporate is going to take this situation and use
> it as an excuse/precedent to start gouging money from the local branches
> thru mandatory payments? That what it seems to me that is being implied
> here.
>
> 3) And I'm not sure what you mean by "happy with the status quo". What
> status quo? This is a unique situation as far as I know never encountered in
> the SCA before. Would it be better if the SCA didn't have to pay for what
> one person did? Yes. Should the Kingdom where the incident took place be
> solely responsible? Perhaps. But it was the SCA Inc. that was sued and was
> found, by the US court system to be liable for what happened. Therefore the
> SCA must pay and we are all part of the SCA. Can something be put in place
> to help insulate this kind of situation in the future? Perhaps. I'm sure
> this is already being looked into at corporate. But refusing to help out now
> will not change what has happened, nor will it show anyone that we don't
> like this situation.
>
> It's OK to want to go thru the normal meeting process for approving $ above
> our required amount. Again, I understand that on an intellectual level. But
> again, I think this is a unique situation where we can make this happen now.
> Other groups who don't even have to help are stepping up to the plate. Why
> can't we? We are discussing it now. We can (hopefully) get an agreement on
> what is the right thing to do. Do we really need to talk about this for 3
> more meetings? Will those really make a difference in this situation?
>
> Your points/questions are exactly why we are having this discussion right
> now. If enough people agree that we need to talk about this beyond this
> e-mail discussion, than we will.
>
> -Finn
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nique.rio at gmail.com [mailto:nique.rio at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Monique
> Rio
> Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 6:48 PM
> To: Dennis Higgins
> Cc: Barony of Cynnabar
> Subject: Re: [Cynnabar] BoC - Settlement funding discussion
>
> I am firmly in the "give the minimum now, and intend to give more later"
> camp.
>
> First, it's a BIG RED FLAG that we're being told to give 18% of our
> 2010 money without enough notice for us to have even one business
> meeting to discuss it. That alone indicates caution.
>
> Second, the only difference between giving money now and giving money
> in a month is that we LOOK more generous now. APPEARING generous now
> means sacrificing the discussion policy, and there's no utilitarian
> gain by doing this. No one is actually helped more by us giving
> without discussing first. What it does do is set a bad precedent:
>
> 1) We're telling the group that we're OK with throwing away our policy
> when someone urgently asks for money.
>
> 2) We're telling Kingdom and Corporate that it's OK to spring
> mandatory payments without a month's notice. DUDE that's not cool. If
> they'd told us a month in advance we could have, within policy,
> decided as a group to give them more money at the given time.
>
> 3) We're also telling them we're happy with the status quo, which some
> of you may be, but I'm not. Among other things, I'd rather have our
> kingdom be insulated from stupid people in other kingdoms.
>
> I for one would much rather have Cynnabar appear miserly on Saturday,
> and have given generously and wisely come Pennsic.
>
> Is that crazy?
>
> -Jadzia
>
> On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 6:16 PM, Dennis Higgins <mortisfan at comcast.net>
> wrote:
> > (My populace hat on right now?)
> >
> >
> >
> > Perhaps this will help with some perspective on numbers.
> >
> >
> >
> > If we contribute $1200 to the settlement/Kingdom coffer replenishment (our
> > 2011 18% $1160.49 rounded up to an even number) and the $300 we have
> already
> > approved for the shade fly and the $300 we already approved for TRH travel
> > fund, we still have over $4600 in our account. We can be generous and we
> > still have a surplus.
> >
> >
> >
> > Is anyone denying that there is a need right now to help out the SCA? Bare
> > minimum of our required obligation seems inadequate to me in our
> > organizations time of need. While intellectually I understand that desire
> to
> > go thru our normal discussion process for funding decisions, in this
> special
> > circumstance, I don?t understand the hesitation or reluctance to just step
> > up to the plate and just be generous now, this week. We have the
> capability.
> > We have the resources and still have a good surplus. We have events and
> > ideas for more fundraisers that will more than cover this. I?ve seen a lot
> > of questions as to what happens if, and how does ?x? happen if ?y?. To me
> > the question is why shouldn?t we help out the SCA right now. So many other
> > groups are not even hesitating over this. Other (international) Kingdoms
> not
> > required to help out are stepping up and sending in money. If we held our
> > normal 3 meeting discussion is there really any doubt that the
> overwhelming
> > majority will approve contributing more than our bare minimum obligation?
> >
> >
> >
> > We have enough members of Cynnabar active on this list where it should be
> > clear to what the group wants to do. I say lets help out now, this week.
> > Give generously as we can. Trust the people in charge will do the right
> > thing and put the money to best use. And support the Society we all know
> and
> > love.
> >
> >
> >
> > -Finn
> >
> >
> >
> > From: barony-bounces at cynnabar.org [mailto:barony-bounces at cynnabar.org] On
> > Behalf Of Greg Less
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 5:40 PM
> > To: Randy Asplund
> > Cc: Barony of Cynnabar
> >
> >
> > Subject: Re: [Cynnabar] BoC - Settlement funding discussion
> >
> >
> >
> > In more seriousness, and as I believe others have already said, this
> > discussion is really about whether we are going to do the bare minimum of
> > what is expected of us by giving 18%, or if we are going to go above and
> > beyond.
> >
> >
> >
> > In my experience, Cynnabar has always gone above and beyond.?It is what
> > makes us the best.
> >
> >
> >
> > -Gregoire.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Barony mailing list
> > Barony at cynnabar.org
> > http://lists.cynnabar.org/listinfo/barony
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2012 19:27:27 -0500
> From: Greg Less <greg.less at gmail.com>
> To: Monique Rio <mrio at umich.edu>
> Cc: Barony of Cynnabar <barony at cynnabar.org>
> Subject: Re: [Cynnabar] BoC - Settlement funding discussion
> Message-ID:
> <CAKSEWfun97VqGwSni-KeY_ZFsEE2TostRM6AKrrrSBHxK+eLnQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> The seneschal, Baron, and Baroness of our group have passed along a request
> of our King and Queen.
>
> The King and Queen are responding to a directive from the Society Board of
> Directors.
>
> The Society Board of Directors are responding to a directive from a judge
> of the United States.
>
>
> We are lucky that we are being given the opportunity to discuss this at
> all. Many other groups in the Known World convened an emergency council and
> simply wrote a check without ever talking to the populace. Some of them for
> more than the 18% We are lucky that the Kingdom or even the Society hasn't
> simply stepped in and taken the money from our account, since, in the end,
> the account is an SCA, Inc account, not a Cynnabar account. Ultimately, if
> we don't pay, the court will come in and take our money and possibly our
> non-liquid assets too.
>
>
> Are we discussing whether we should look generous, yeah, of course.
> Perception is reality, particularly in a Society based on the medieval mind
> set where appearance was everything.
>
>
> -Gregoire.
>
> On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 7:05 PM, Monique Rio <mrio at umich.edu> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 6:57 PM, Greg Less <greg.less at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> 2) We're telling Kingdom and Corporate that it's OK to spring
> > >> mandatory payments without a month's notice. DUDE that's not cool. If
> > >> they'd told us a month in advance we could have, within policy,
> > >> decided as a group to give them more money at the given time.
> > >>
> > >
> > > Actually, we are telling the judge that it is okay to tell us that if we
> > > don't give the victims their settlement money by the deadline he set...
> > >
> >
> > I wouldn't know because we haven't had a meeting to discuss it.
> >
> > I'm not saying we shouldn't give the minimum. I'm not saying we
> > shouldn't give more in the future. I'm saying there's no reason (other
> > than appearances) why we need to give above and beyond before we've
> > gone through due process.
> >
> > -Jadzia
> >
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2012 19:35:18 -0500
> From: Kelly Carnahan <wyndsung at gmail.com>
> To: Barony of Cynnabar <barony at cynnabar.org>
> Subject: Re: [Cynnabar] BoC - Settlement funding discussion
> Message-ID:
> <CAEvuBgr178zHAi8ULEXdAu8E+L7dMocjg7=j+7n=OdpwVPZV3g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I'm fine with paying $1200 now. I think it's important to support the SCA
> in a time of need, and it does not appear like this sort of demand will be
> abused by the Society, as it is the first time it has happened (to my
> knowledge) and it is occurring under very trying circumstances. We can
> afford to be generous, so let's be generous. The SCA gives me great joy,
> and I would like to see it continue to thrive. If there is ever any
> indication that the Society will start to abuse their power over individual
> groups, than that conversation can occur with more rigor then.
>
> ~Birke
>
> On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 7:27 PM, Greg Less <greg.less at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > The seneschal, Baron, and Baroness of our group have passed along a
> > request of our King and Queen.
> >
> > The King and Queen are responding to a directive from the Society Board of
> > Directors.
> >
> > The Society Board of Directors are responding to a directive from a judge
> > of the United States.
> >
> >
> > We are lucky that we are being given the opportunity to discuss this at
> > all. Many other groups in the Known World convened an emergency council and
> > simply wrote a check without ever talking to the populace. Some of them for
> > more than the 18% We are lucky that the Kingdom or even the Society hasn't
> > simply stepped in and taken the money from our account, since, in the end,
> > the account is an SCA, Inc account, not a Cynnabar account. Ultimately, if
> > we don't pay, the court will come in and take our money and possibly our
> > non-liquid assets too.
> >
> >
> > Are we discussing whether we should look generous, yeah, of course.
> > Perception is reality, particularly in a Society based on the medieval mind
> > set where appearance was everything.
> >
> >
> > -Gregoire.
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 7:05 PM, Monique Rio <mrio at umich.edu> wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 6:57 PM, Greg Less <greg.less at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> 2) We're telling Kingdom and Corporate that it's OK to spring
> >> >> mandatory payments without a month's notice. DUDE that's not cool. If
> >> >> they'd told us a month in advance we could have, within policy,
> >> >> decided as a group to give them more money at the given time.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > Actually, we are telling the judge that it is okay to tell us that if we
> >> > don't give the victims their settlement money by the deadline he set...
> >> >
> >>
> >> I wouldn't know because we haven't had a meeting to discuss it.
> >>
> >> I'm not saying we shouldn't give the minimum. I'm not saying we
> >> shouldn't give more in the future. I'm saying there's no reason (other
> >> than appearances) why we need to give above and beyond before we've
> >> gone through due process.
> >>
> >> -Jadzia
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Barony mailing list
> > Barony at cynnabar.org
> > http://lists.cynnabar.org/listinfo/barony
> >
> >
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>
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