[Cynnabar] Changing the 100 Mile event rule- From KSen, February AS L
David Hoornstra via Barony
barony at cynnabar.org
Thu Jan 28 02:35:35 UTC 2016
Looking over previous posts, I see our thoughts running in several
directions, often conflicting directions in the same post. Some of the most
difficult things are about US and THEM. Cynnabar takes great pride in
providing well-considered, well-run events for a wide spectrum of the
event-going public. So it¹s tough for us to consider giving away valuable
calendar ³real estate² without assurance the public will get a better event
experience out of it.
I think Curia might be well advised to replace the Radius Question with a
Regional Calendar Question. Several posts have already pointed in this
direction.
Curia¹s concern for the needs of smaller groups to hold events for financial
reasons is worthy in itself, but may not be the best starting point for
overall event-scheduling policy. There seem to be certain assumptions about
How Things Should Be.
I¹m not sure there should be a blanket ³right² for a group of unstated
qualifications to automatically have a date on the kindgom calendar. This
idea comes from one of those Assumptions. My assumption is that a group
should consider the needs of its audience first.
Is it a sacred cow that every event be the product of a local chapter¹s
Creative Genius? Is local creativity more important than the populace having
good event choices? Making the quality of life in the SCA depend on local
initiative may have been ³the only way² for the first ten years, but it may
be time to consider alternatives. (FIFTY YEARS? ARE YOU SERIOUS?)
Deciding the national, regional and subregional calendar is way too
important to leave to a tug of war. We need to gain some consensus on these
issues:
1. Who are events for? The local group or its audience?
2. How do we define essential event classifications? Size? Profitability?
Constituency?
3. Who should be putting on the events defined as IMPORTANT to ALL?
4. Where SHOULD money come from to provide quality event experiences?
We seem to be making assumptions about what the average SCA member wants out
of an event. Some data is needed:
1. How is the SCA audience proportioned in terms of type of event
attended/preferred?
2. What portion of the individual member¹s SCA spending goes to events and
how does it get there?
3. What portion of the SCA¹s and a kingdom¹s annual spending goes to events?
How is that spent?
4. What portion of event monies should be allocated to local group
development?
5. We know insurance is a big slice of our pie. Can we classify some event
types as lower risk and save money?
I¹m not saying we shouldn¹t move without all these questions being nailed
down.
Everyone understands the need for kingdom events to go well. These events
already ³anchor² the calendar.
Maybe we should expand the number of events anchoring the kingdom calendar
and create a Regional Calendar. Grant ³official kingdom status, class 2² to
a certain number of defined events BY TYPE per year IN EACH REGION and
SUPPORT THEM. Every local group in Pentamere could bid, for instance, on the
Pentamere Spring Archery Event to be held on one of three specified
weekends. (Just an example; I understand there are archery organizations.)
Daibhid ³ruadh² MacLachlan
From: Randy Asplund via Barony <barony at cynnabar.org>
Reply-To: Randy Asplund <randyasplund at comcast.net>
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 19:22:19 +0000 (UTC)
To: "Cynnabar, Barony" <barony at cynnabar.org>
Subject: Re: [Cynnabar] Changing the 100 Mile event rule- From KSen,
February AS L
Thanks Birka,
Actually, while I think that it is on the SCA to make it available for
groups to host an event each year, that would hinge on whether the group was
actually ready, able and willing to do so. Pushing a group that isn't set to
hold an event would be a mistake. While most full status groups get to be
full status after having run events, there will always be groups on the
fringe who are hanging on thinly, or are in hard times, or just don't
currently have the interested and capable people to handle it, or may be
otherwise short on resources for a year or more.
Funding sources for a group can certainly happen in other ways. It is not
uncommon for an incipient group to get their first seed money by doing demos
for pay. Just one example.
RanthulfR
From: "Kell Carnahan via Barony" <barony at cynnabar.org>
To: "Randy Asplund" <randyasplund at comcast.net>
Cc: "Barony Cynnabar" <barony at cynnabar.org>, seneschal at midrealm.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2016 1:26:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Cynnabar] Changing the 100 Mile event rule- From KSen,
February AS L
Some well-reasoned thoughts.
Do you feel that it is necessary for a small group to host an event every
year? What if the group is particularly tiny, and doesn't have the manpower
or experience to really do so?
On the other thread, I made some thoughts about how if the issue is one of
funding for small groups, perhaps we should focus on creative ways to dampen
that issue.
On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 12:34 PM, Randy Asplund via Barony
<barony at cynnabar.org> wrote:
> Hello all,
>
>
>
> First, if I cover some thoughts othesr already expressed, it is because I am a
> slow typist and not because I'm claiming your ideas. Took me a while to write
> this up.
>
>
>
> The question is about whether the radius that events are allowed to hold
> competing events within ought to be increased. I think that is the wrong
> question. The radius rule is a band-aide, not a solution. It should not be
> about radius alone because:
>
>
>
> Right to hold at least one event per year: I strongly feel that every group
> needs to be allowed to hold a successful event each year because it is the
> point of the SCA and because holding events is an essential tool for a group
> has to raise working capital. As the number of groups increases, there is more
> competition during the year for specific dates, and there are dates which are
> far more feasible than others inside a radius. Young groups need to be able to
> hold events in order to learn and to grow. Screwing them because they couldn't
> get a date within a certain radius is counter productive.
>
>
>
> I feel that the large "Super Events" such as Crown, Coronation, Val Day, TOC,
> Baron Wars, etc. draw from such a wide distance that they impact concurrent
> events well beyond the radius, and in fact across the whole kingdom. Super
> Events can be enormous, expensive events which require a lot of capitol and
> attendance fees in order to host them, such as Val Day. If they do not get
> enough attendance due to competing events, they may not be able to pay for the
> large site, and may even have serious financial distress. On the other hand,
> if there is a competing event the same day almost ANYWHERE in the kingdom, the
> radius rule is ineffectual and doesn't protect any events. Anybody holding an
> event on that day will likely be impacted to some degree. The more super
> events we have that take up the calendar, the worse this problem will get, and
> smaller events will suffer.
>
>
>
> Combining small events to make Super Events doesn't seem to be the answer. I
> once thought it logical, but I see drawbacks. Yes, there are many good
> aspects, such as everyone can come and find something to do. Combining all
> fighting types, maybe archery, maybe studio arts, music, A&S displays,
> classes, far more merchants than at a small event, etc. is very convenient.
> But you usually have to choose which activities to do. Its hard to fight a
> tourney and break away to take a class when the local A&S event gets rolled
> into a Super Event. You would have been able to take that class if it had been
> on its own weekend. Also, combining events means extra long travel for
> organizers and volunteers, less face to face communication for them,
> co-sponsoring groups may be limited by members of "less efficient" or less
> experienced groups, and the financial and other resources have to be
> distributed in agreement. Those resources are at risk, but the responsibility
> is divided.
>
>
>
> A radius rule cannot help but be biased. Some groups are far away from other
> groups while others are in dense SCA population areas. One might expect that a
> remote group's survival would be linked to whether their event drew enough
> people for success, while a group in a densely populated area would be quite
> able to draw enough people for a theme focus event the same weekend as another
> group held an event nearby. Groups close to geographic boundaries like the
> great lakes, international and SCA Kingdom borders, or groups within the
> radius but where actual driving routes mean longer travel skew the usefulness
> of the radius rule.
>
>
>
> The usefulness of the radius rule also fluctuates with the price of gas, which
> affects the travel plans of many potential attendees.
>
>
>
> The available days on the calendar are limited. Super Events of the kingdom
> such as Crown, Coronation 12th Nights and TOC, or Pennsic, or Val Day, Baron
> Wars, etc. all chew up dates. Holidays take more, and even home sporting
> events have an impact where many groups are centered in university towns. Use
> of Fairground sites and other larger venues for fighting events is in
> competition with mundane groups. Churches also have weddings competing with
> us. Squeezing in events around all of this is a nightmare of scheduling which
> gets worse when it becomes a matter of "first come, first served" getting the
> calendar slot. In an area with a lot of groups close to each other these
> things make competition for weekends very hard.
>
>
>
> Is "first come, first served" a fair way to decide?
>
> Obviously, it was intended that way, but I think it creates a different
> unfairness. Not getting your event on the calendar can be a financial setback
> or even disaster for some groups. And while it is a whole group trying to
> survive and hold an event, usually the task of getting onto the calendar is up
> to one person. If because of lack of experience, or some other reason like
> unavailability of a site to book causes the group to lose a calendar date to
> another group who had more convenient logistics, that's unfair.
>
>
>
> Having an event close by on the same day will impact some events financially
> by reducing attendance, but that is NOT ALWAYS TRUE. There are events of
> different natures which can use nearby sites without impacting each other very
> significantly. There may be a way to allow close events of different natures.
> For example, if two groups wished to host an event on the same day and
> somewhat near each other, they could work out between them whether they felt
> they would have the attendance numbers to work with their site.
>
>
>
> Also, is it fair if a group in that position can't hold their only event of
> the year when some other group schedules their third event? I say it is not.
> When groups are fighting to get one event on the calendar, it is not cool for
> other groups to get a selfish share of the calendar at another group's
> expense, regardless of who was first.
>
>
>
> But what if the group holding several events during the year throws REALLY
> good events? Isn't it important that those events be allowed to happen? Is it
> MORE important that such "worthy" events are held than the needs of the
> competing group who's event is likely a lesser draw anyway?
>
>
>
> No, it isn't MORE important. But it IS important that both groups are able to
> pull off their events. All effort should be made to ensure that a group gets
> to hold at least one event during the year if they wish. That ought to be a
> given. There are ways to work it out. As for how it is worked out, that
> depends on what the SCA gets out of the other collection of events held by the
> other group. For example, if one group holds three similar fighting events, it
> would be selfish and wrong to prevent another group from holding their one
> event. But if the first group holds several smaller theme specific events
> which have a vital SCA value and are bringing in people from across the
> kingdom, there needs to be a way to hold those events too, and without
> impacting the single-event holding group.
>
>
>
> The solution to that seems to be allowing the events to happen within the
> radius, regardless of the earliest scheduler's claim. In other words, just
> ditch the radius method.
>
>
>
> How to work it out? The problem is that we plan our events with little
> advanced regard for who else needs a weekend, and we plan that according to
> our anticipated attendance draw. As it is, if someone comes along later and
> needs to share the weekend within some radius, you can let them if you feel it
> won't impact your event, but if you feel it might impact your numbers, you
> deny the waiver. That screws the other group. To me, the better solution is to
> replace the radius rule. We should allow events to happen on the same weekend
> regardless of distance, knowing ahead of time how it will impact both events,
> AND knowing that the impact is an incentive to try hard not to schedule
> against each other.
>
>
>
> The way to do that is to have groups post a notice of intent to hold an event
> as soon as they know they want to do it. They provide possible weekends they
> can hold it, target attendance numbers, and list the other events they wish to
> hold. In the digital age this is very feasible. Then you let groups who feel
> the need contact each other and work out how to manage it. Every group would
> be able to see that listing, and if they felt they needed that weekend they
> could then negotiate on equal terms. That isn't possible in the "first come,
> first served" method. Will groups always get the same numbers as if they had
> no local competition? Of course not, but it would be fair. And attendance will
> rise or fall by natural selection. It does that now anyway. I feel that
> knowing the success of an event will be impacted by numbers will naturally
> cause groups to try very hard NOT to hold events on the same weekend, so it
> will be like a self-regulating valve. If you throw a good event, people will
> want to come. If you don't get the numbers you want, you plan a smaller site.
> Yes, people will have to choose which event to attend. Yes, some groups will
> argue about it, but they'll have to work together or suffer together, and the
> later is a motivation to cooperate.
>
>
>
>
>
> Ranthulf AsparlundR
>
>
>
> From: "Kay Jarrell via Barony" <barony at cynnabar.org>
> To: "Melanie Schuessler Bond" <mschuess at bond-family.com>
> Cc: "Barony of Cynnabar" <barony at cynnabar.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2016 7:50:19 AM
> Subject: Re: [Cynnabar] Changing the 100 Mile event rule- From KSen, February
> AS L
>
> Dear Barony,
> I look forward to more comment on this issue. Why should you write about it?
> And why to the Baronial list?
> * First, I hope discussion will produce greater light as many minds consider
> this issue. Sharing here can spark a blending of ideas.
> * Second, Cynnabar produces 3 well regarded events, each with a strong core
> interest group. Terpsichore and St Cecila's would both be considered special
> interest events by many people. Grand Day of Tournaments is more of a
> "typical" SCA event, but has a few unique attractors that make it special.
> Therefore, the Barony has a vested interest in how the decision about the
> distance change turns out, and in the process by which that decision is made.
> * Third, Cynnabar does great Kingdom level events. We are respected for it.
> Others may want to hear from us.
> *
> * Overall we have an excellent history of producing successful local, regional
> and Kingdom events. I think that you, the people who create those events,
> should be heard in this discussion.
> I believe a message from the Barony with arguments presented by members of a
> group such as I described will be valued and listened to by the Curia. If we
> have a consensus of opinion (and a minority report, too) it is our duty to
> pass it on.
>
> In a week I will see what we have collected here, write a synopsis, get your
> last comments, and send it as our collected advice to Crown and Curia.
>
> Thank you,
> Kay
>
>
> Kay Jarrell
>
> 4363 Lyndon Lane Ann Arbor, MI 48105
>
>
>
>
>
> kjarrell at gmail.com
>
> HOME: 734-913-4053 <tel:734-913-4053>
>
>
> CELL: 734-645-3175 <tel:734-645-3175>
>
> On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 8:16 PM, Melanie Schuessler Bond via Barony
> <barony at cynnabar.org> wrote:
>> I agree that this change would not be for the better.
>>
>> Melisant
>>
>>
>> On Jan 26, 2016, at 8:24 AM, Anne Stevenson via Barony wrote:
>>
>>> I agree with Gregoire that this may cause even more trouble with people
>>> booking up the calendar ahead of time.
>>>
>>> What I would like to see more is finding ways to help groups work together
>>> to put on events. Then there would be more attendance, more staff and
>>> hopefully more opportunities for fun and engagement!
>>>
>>> Giovanna
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 8:00 AM, Greg Less via Barony <barony at cynnabar.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Mistress Kay -
>>>>
>>>> There are pros and cons to this issue. The calendar is certainly
>>>> over-booked the way it is already, but reducing the number of events per
>>>> weekend by increasing the "do not compete" radius is simply going to
>>>> encourage the monolithic legacy events to get on the calendar further and
>>>> further in advance. Even if the kingdom starts restricting how far in
>>>> advance a group can book a weekend, I think that they will see a sudden
>>>> influx of reservations on the first available day.
>>>>
>>>> A solution is needed, I'm just not sure that this is it.
>>>>
>>>> -Gregoire.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 7:50 AM, Kay Jarrell via Barony
>>>> <barony at cynnabar.org> wrote:
>>>>> Does Cynnabar have an opinion on this issue? If you want to add your
>>>>> thoughts to the advice I send Mistress Catriona please write.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here in Pentamere this change would have a powerful affect. We have
>>>>> struggled with date conflicts just this year.
>>>>>
>>>>> I appreciate any input from those who do not feel strongly enough to write
>>>>> directly to The Seneschal, but have thoughts to express.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you
>>>>> Kay
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>>> From: "The Midrealm Gazette" <donotreply at wordpress.com>
>>>>> Date: Jan 25, 2016 8:32 PM
>>>>> Subject: [New post] From the Kingdom Seneschal, February AS L
>>>>> To: <kjarrell at gmail.com>
>>>>> Cc:
>>>>>
>>>>>> admin posted: "Let¹s talk about event scheduling. The Middle Kingdom is
>>>>>> fortunate to have more than eighty local groups and thousands of members.
>>>>>> Our longstanding law is groups are not typically allowed to hold events
>>>>>> within 100 miles of one another. The kingdom Calend"
>>>>>> New post on The Midrealm Gazette
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <http://www.midrealmgazette.org/?author=1>
>>>>>> From the Kingdom Seneschal, February AS L
>>>>>> <http://www.midrealmgazette.org/2016/01/25/from-the-kingdom-seneschal-feb
>>>>>> ruary-as-l/>
>>>>>> by admin <http://www.midrealmgazette.org/?author=1>
>>>>>> Let¹s talk about event scheduling.
>>>>>> The Middle Kingdom is fortunate to have more than eighty local groups and
>>>>>> thousands of members. Our longstanding law is groups are not typically
>>>>>> allowed to hold events within 100 miles of one another. The kingdom
>>>>>> Calendar Secretary is instructed to inform groups if an event is within
>>>>>> 200 miles and/or in the same region of an event that is already
>>>>>> scheduled. The purpose is to help bring potential conflicts to mind. The
>>>>>> intent is to help Shires and Baronies be aware they may be impacted in
>>>>>> terms of attendance. Currently, groups are not prohibited if the events
>>>>>> are scheduled at least 101 miles away from each other. However, a law
>>>>>> change is under consideration to change the ³100-mile rule² to 150 miles.
>>>>>> Commentary, concerns, and discussion can be sent to me at
>>>>>> seneschal at midrealm.org. Read more of this post
>>>>>> <http://www.midrealmgazette.org/2016/01/25/from-the-kingdom-seneschal-feb
>>>>>> ruary-as-l/#more-929>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> admin <http://www.midrealmgazette.org/?author=1> | January 25, 2016 at
>>>>>> 8:30 pm | Categories: Calendar
>>>>>> <http://www.midrealmgazette.org/?taxonomy=category&term=calendar> ,
>>>>>> Events <http://www.midrealmgazette.org/?taxonomy=category&term=events> ,
>>>>>> Official Missives
>>>>>> <http://www.midrealmgazette.org/?taxonomy=category&term=official-missives
>>>>>> > , Seneschal
>>>>>> <http://www.midrealmgazette.org/?taxonomy=category&term=seneschal> |
>>>>>> URL: http://wp.me/p5OLYn-eZ
>>>>>> Unsubscribe
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>>>>>> uary-as-l/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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