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LoL! OK, I had a gut feeling that you weren't actually insane. However, I have a feeling that this test was flawed from a scientific standpoint because it only tested an extreme situation, and not a typical one.<div><br></div><div>Let's look at the process and think about why it went as it did. </div><div><br></div><div>First, let us consider human nature. I think it is human nature to stand off when people who are attending a meeting come up with an idea and want to go with it. I think most people will naturally expect that some proposal or other was made with good intent, and that the people who are there and actually know what was discussed have a good understanding and can be usually trusted to make the right decision. In cases where a small priority item is being discussed, such as "should the group contribute $50 to buy some fencing gear," we probably won't have much, if any, discussion over email from people who were not at the meeting. They will trust the people who were there. </div><div><br></div><div>What' are the drawbacks of letting the decisions of a meeting happen without emailing out details of the discussion? Well, reduced input from wider perspectives is a biggie. And also, when you trust what amounts to a committee to make a decision for a group and then it turns out bad, the group really had no information to let them know there was something to which they might have objected. For example, to pick a totally polar issue, what if the meeting group decided to participate as Cynnabar in a demo at an abortion fundraiser? It is pretty clear that some people would be for it and others would be against it. If the information that described the event were not listed in the minutes, but only the title "Mother's Demo" given, you can see how it could be a problem. There is a trust that people who can't make a meeting must be willing to give to those who can make it, and those attending need to earn that trust for it to work well.</div><div><br></div><div>Clearly, when something really extreme, like a $2k price for thrones comes up, someone is going to notice. But who actually came out and said "What are you idiots smoking? This is a stupid idea!" There was a time when some people in Cynnabar would have taken a tack like that. Instead we had people coyly asking questions, hoping to bring out information without being rude. It is good to see proof that we have become more mature in our responses, but the lack of a strong negative shows us one more thing. It shows us that the group on email is still pre-supposing that the meeting attendees probably know something that makes this at least credible.</div><div><br></div><div>Well, we do that with US congress too, and as we all know THAT never goes badly....</div><div><br></div><div>So I think the upshot is:</div><div>1) We probably do need more detail than we have now in the minutes with pros and cons of bigger items and obviously controversial items,</div><div>and</div><div>2) The smaller items seem to be handled well enough by the attendees, and to the satisfaction of the group without the details going online. However, the test didn't really prove whether 3 weeks was adequate or not, since it didn't test online the time it takes discussing details of a subject.</div><div><br></div><div>RanthulfR</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div><div>On Nov 18, 2009, at 10:35 AM, Greg Less wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div>Hi All-</div> <div> </div> <div> Here's the full story/confession:</div> <div> </div> <div> Two weeks ago at the business meeting I proposed $2000 for new thrones as an experiment. We were discussing 1) whether or not the meeting minutes were an effective means of communicating the business of the barony to those who can not attend the Monday night meetings and 2) whether or not the three week discussion period was necessary for completing financial transactions. The impetus was from some of the questions that were posed at the Fireside Chat with the Candidates, as well as declining Monday Meeting attendance.</div> <div> </div> <div> The idea (which was all mine, and I take full responsibility for it) was that we would take something relatively reasonable, such as new regalia for the Barony, and propose an outrageous budget for it. The choice of thrones was arbitrary. We would put this in the minutes and see if anyone noticed. If it was noticed, I wanted to see what the response would be and how it would be delivered (either by increased email traffic, or by higher meeting attendance). Also, depending upon the repsonse and how long it took for people to become engaged I figured that we could get a feel for whether the three weeks of discussion prior to making any business decisions was still a valid time scale.</div> <div> </div> <div> Fruitful discussion has taken place and I think we know now that the group is reading and paying attention to the minutes (or at least to Sir RanthulfR's responses to the minutes!) and that they are NOT okay with budgeting such a huge expenditure without a much better proposal in place. It did, however, take more than one week for this to come to a head, thus proving (?) that the three week discussion period is slow but most likely necessary. </div> <div> </div> <div> Basically, this tells me that the system that Cynnabar has had in place from the beginning is a good one - A proposal needs to be well thought out and thoroughly presented to the group for expenditures, the details of the proposal need to be disseminated to the group for reflection and discussion, and three weeks is a good time period for this discussion to be fully hashed out.</div> <div> </div> <div> I apologize to any and all that feel that there was malice in these actions. That was not the intention, I assure you. If you would like to discuss this more, please feel free to contact me directly.</div> <div> </div> <div> Also, for the record, while the current thrones could use some maintenance and TLC, they are not in dire need of replacement.</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>Yours,</div> <div> </div> <div>Baron Gregoire.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">_______________________________________________</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Barony mailing list</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><a href="mailto:Barony@cynnabar.org">Barony@cynnabar.org</a></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><a href="http://lists.cynnabar.org/listinfo/barony">http://lists.cynnabar.org/listinfo/barony</a></div> </blockquote></div><br><div> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Randy Asplund</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">www.RandyAsplund.com</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Maker of Medieval books and </div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Illustrator of Science Fiction & Fantasy</div><div>(734) 663-0954</div><div>2101 S. 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