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<TITLE>Re: [Cynnabar] Searching for a new Meeting site.</TITLE>
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<FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>Hello everyone,<BR>
It’s been long since I put my oar in, but this is the time.<BR>
<BR>
I must say Gregoire hit the nail very close to the head.<BR>
<BR>
A couple of things he did NOT say, I will.<BR>
<BR>
• A group like ours cannot be “managed” like a corporation by trying to “game” the numbers and trends. You have to do the real work of taking care of individuals’ needs. One of these is the FEELING that their voice matters. Numbers management applied to this must accept that 100% of the people must always be allowed a voice, and 100% of the concerns are eligible 100% of the time.<BR>
• Corollary: there is no such thing as “enough criticism and pushback.” “Enough” is not a measureable quantity. The required item isn’t “criticism and pushback.” It is the guarantee that the opportunity will always be there. Fear of losing these is a huge factor in national politics. Let’s not have that here.<BR>
• No one at any time accepts criticism well. Those who take on the job of “leadership” must ALL try to handle it as well as we can for the good of others, i.e. the group.<BR>
<BR>
Daibhid<BR>
<BR>
<HR ALIGN=CENTER SIZE="3" WIDTH="95%"><B>From: </B>Greg Less via Barony <<a href="barony@cynnabar.org">barony@cynnabar.org</a>><BR>
<B>Reply-To: </B>Greg Less <<a href="greg.less@gmail.com">greg.less@gmail.com</a>><BR>
<B>Date: </B>Wed, 8 Mar 2017 08:25:41 -0500<BR>
<B>To: </B>Carol Perry Lagemann <<a href="carolanneperry@gmail.com">carolanneperry@gmail.com</a>><BR>
<B>Cc: </B>barony <<a href="barony@cynnabar.org">barony@cynnabar.org</a>><BR>
<B>Subject: </B>Re: [Cynnabar] Searching for a new Meeting site.<BR>
<BR>
Hi Your Excellency-<BR>
<BR>
* Any topic that can be debated, should be open to debate. <BR>
- There is no such thing as "an uncontroversial expenditure." Every dime that the barony spends belongs to every member of the group and if someone has an issue with an expenditure they should feel welcome and encouraged to bring that issue before the group and discuss it. <BR>
- Details of running events should absolutely be discussed, debated, and only passed when consensus has been reached - we expect the populace to attend our events, pay our site fees, and then work on their day off. It is but the smallest of courtesy to give them a say in how they are going to be managed. <BR>
<BR>
* The three meeting process is in place so that people who have a concern have ample time to come to a meeting and present their concerns. Our trend toward calling expenditures "emergencies" and using the Seneschal's $50 discretionary spending power disturbs me. <BR>
<BR>
* I can not know the secrets that lie in the hearts of men. For my own part, I do not believe that criticism of ideas is well received in the barony at this time. <BR>
<BR>
* I don't think a policy can be used to encourage debate. <BR>
<BR>
-Gregoire. <BR>
<BR>
On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 4:22 PM, Carol Perry Lagemann <<a href="carolanneperry@gmail.com">carolanneperry@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>Gregoire, I'm interested in the idea of more debate causing greater attendance. I have some questions about what it might look like at a Cynnabar meeting.<BR>
<BR>
* About what percentage of topics at the business meeting do you currently feel would benefit from more debate? Are there items for which you feel that debate is not necessary (possibly the approval of uncontroversial expenditures, or details about running events)?<BR>
<BR>
* For items where debate is not necessary, how would you feel about NOT having a debate, and instead limiting the boredom factor by shortening the required approval time (for example, allowing the group to approve all expenses in only one meeting)?<BR>
<BR>
* Why do people currently not give enough criticism and pushback? Do you think there are people at the meetings who want to speak up but feel that they can't, or is it more that those who attend the meetings don't feel that debate is necessary? Is there a group of people who like to debate but are avoiding meetings because they feel the culture of the meetings forbids criticism?<BR>
<BR>
* What specific actions or policies could be used (by the seneschal, by meeting attendees, or others) to increase the amount of debate at meetings?<BR>
<BR>
Thanks,<BR>
Kasha<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 4:07 PM, Carol Perry Lagemann <<a href="carolanneperry@gmail.com">carolanneperry@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'><U>This is in answer to Aeffe's question about population distribution within the Barony.<BR>
</U><BR>
This information is current as of <B>August 2015.</B> (I don't have more updated figures handy, but I can produce them if needed, given some time.)<BR>
<BR>
Total Cynnabar Population = 208<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><UL><LI><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>Reside within Cynnabar ZIP Codes = 119
</SPAN></FONT><LI><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>Reside outside Cynnabar ZIP Codes = 24
</SPAN></FONT><LI><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>Location of residence unknown = 65<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></UL><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>Distribution within Cynnabar ZIP Codes<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><UL><LI><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>24 people - 48197 (Ypsilanti & Rawsonville)
</SPAN></FONT><LI><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>
</SPAN></FONT><LI><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>18 people - 48103 (Ann Arbor, Delhi, Loch Alpine, Lodi Township, & Scio Township)
</SPAN></FONT><LI><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>
</SPAN></FONT><LI><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>14 people - 48108 (Ann Arbor & Pittsfield Township)
</SPAN></FONT><LI><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>
</SPAN></FONT><LI><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>13 people - 48105 (Ann Arbor, Ann Arbor Township, Barton Hills, Dixboro, & Superior Township)
</SPAN></FONT><LI><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>
</SPAN></FONT><LI><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>10 people - 48198 (Ypsilanti, Willow Run, Superior Township, & Superior Township)
</SPAN></FONT><LI><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>
</SPAN></FONT><LI><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>9 people - 48176 (Saline)
</SPAN></FONT><LI><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>
</SPAN></FONT><LI><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>7 people - 48104 (Ann Arbor & Pittsfield Township)
</SPAN></FONT><LI><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>
</SPAN></FONT><LI><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>6 people - 48118 (Chelsea, Freedom Township, Lima Center, Lima Township, Luce Township, Lyndon Township, & Sylvan Township)
</SPAN></FONT><LI><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>
</SPAN></FONT><LI><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>5 people - 48130 (Dexter, Dover, Four Mile Lake, Hudson Mills, Scio, & Webster)
</SPAN></FONT><LI><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>
</SPAN></FONT><LI><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>4 people - 48170 (Plymouth)
</SPAN></FONT><LI><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>
</SPAN></FONT><LI><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>3 people - 48160 (Milan, Augusta Township, Cone, London Township, Milan Township, Mooreville, Oakville, Stony Creek, & York Township)
</SPAN></FONT><LI><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>
</SPAN></FONT><LI><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>2 people - 48187 (Canton & Canton Township)
</SPAN></FONT><LI><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>
</SPAN></FONT><LI><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>2 people - 48189 (Whitmore Lake, Hamburg, Northfield Township, & Hamburg Township)
</SPAN></FONT><LI><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>
</SPAN></FONT><LI><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>1 person - 48167 (Northville & Northville Township)
</SPAN></FONT><LI><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>
</SPAN></FONT><LI><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>1 person - 48387 (Novi)<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></UL><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'><BR>
<BR>
On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 4:03 PM, Greg Less via Barony <<a href="barony@cynnabar.org">barony@cynnabar.org</a>> wrote:<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>I believe that HE Hannah brings up a good point that if we move to Sidetracks, we will likely be killing the pre-meeting workshop. <BR>
<BR>
I think that if we are unable to hold the workshop before the business meetings we should be sure to find a time and venue where they can continue to be held. Arts and Sciences and sharing of our collective knowledge is a cornerstone of what makes the SCA special. <BR>
<BR>
During the winter months, if we are able to continue practicing at the Union, it is convenient to hold the workshops in the Opera Room. That doesn't give us a solution for summer though, when practice attendance drops to near zero and we are outside, slave to the vagaries of Michigan weather and bereft of electricity. <BR>
<BR>
-Gregoire. <BR>
<BR>
On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 3:58 PM, Greg Less <<a href="greg.less@gmail.com">greg.less@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>In my opinion, the biggest incentive to attending meetings would be honest, lively debate over issues and proposals as opposed to our current trend to simply rubber stamp everything that gets put forward. Without discussion and debate, the three meeting process is an out-dated formality that should be gotten rid of. Indeed, at this point the entire meeting is a relic from a bygone era that could be easily replaced by email - IF - there isn't substantial opposition at least occasionally brought forth to the proposals and ideas being given for consideration. <BR>
<BR>
We seem to currently view any push back or criticism of an idea as a bad thing. I assert that critical conversation is how we improve ideas and make them even stronger. If only the most ill-conceived proposals are ever spoken against, I believe it is the process that is the heart of the problem. <BR>
<BR>
How does this increase attendance at meetings? If you like an idea being proposed, you will attend to be certain that it isn't shut down by an opposing opinion. If you don't like an idea, you will be sure to attend to make sure that the barony doesn't commit to an activity that will only bring heartache and infamy to the group. Participation at events will like-wise increase because a well fleshed out and debated event proposal that has been agreed upon by our traditional consensus model is something that the entire group has come together to, in some small way, create. <BR>
<BR>
-Gregoire. <BR>
<BR>
On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 3:35 PM, Elizabeth Calhoun via Barony <<a href="barony@cynnabar.org">barony@cynnabar.org</a>> wrote:<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE="2"><FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'>Everyone --<BR>
<BR>
I had the chance just now to go back and read the archived discussions regarding the 2015 proposal to move from Classic Cup ... or change the meeting night in order to remain at Classic Cup. I read back through previous years, when the group moved from the League to Borders to CC ... and part of what I noticed was a comment that a meeting attendance of 5-8 people is low (from historical trends). Maybe we're working the wrong problem. Without denying that it's time to consider moving the meeting itself (as Ilse suggests, the U is not ideal for many), suppose we also consider what would bring people to the meetings? <BR>
<BR>
A week ago or so, someone commented in the Facebook group that a business meeting that started at 7:30pm and went to 9 really didn't hold much attraction. Maybe having workshops has been well-intentioned but the *critical synergy* is 1) a "fun" venue and 2) a chance for group meals & socializing, as we used to do at Classic Cup. <BR>
<BR>
Just my thoughts and questions. Do we need "incentives" to come to meetings? And: How does having a separate student group on campus affect the Baronial meetings (if at all)?<BR>
<BR>
--Godaeth<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'><BR>
On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 3:25 PM, Margaret Kelly via Barony <<a href="barony@cynnabar.org">barony@cynnabar.org</a>> wrote:<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>Just curious, what are the other member population centers in the Barony? Is Ypsi/Pittsfield the biggest? <BR>
<BR>
On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 5:16 AM, Kay Jarrell via Barony <<a href="barony@cynnabar.org">barony@cynnabar.org</a>> wrote:<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>I don't see a barrier to the room. I was speaking directly to the owner. She mentioned that other groups use the space for meetings. I explained we were planning on 3 Mondays a month.<BR>
<BR>
There is a long tradition of service and fraternal organizations meeting in restaurants. Lions Clubs, Optomists, Rotary... in fact Cynnabar did a short series of talks on historical topics for the Chelsea Rotary Club 20 years ago. We would be following in this path.<BR>
<BR>
I am proposing we try this for our next meeting, and see if it enables more or different people to attend. Perhaps this will revitalize our decision-making process.<BR>
<BR>
What other questions should we All talk about?<BR>
<BR>
Thanks,<BR>
Kay<BR>
<BR>
On Mar 6, 2017 3:10 PM, "Carol Perry Lagemann" <<a href="carolanneperry@gmail.com">carolanneperry@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<BR>
One nice thing about that location is that we have a large cluster of members living near that area. (I know of 34 members who live in Ypsilanti. Plus another 41 live in Pittsfield Township, which is close by.)<BR>
<BR>
For everyone's reference, it looks like Sidetrack is about a 2-minute walk from the nearest bus stop on Route 4, and a 10-minute walk from the nearest bus stop on Route 5.<BR>
<BR>
Would we be able to reliably reserve the room on Monday nights?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 2:56 PM, Kay Jarrell via Barony <<a href="barony@cynnabar.org">barony@cynnabar.org</a>> wrote:<BR>
I have been thinking about other places that we could hold Cynnabar meetings. Our criteria are that the space be free, have closer parking, and be accessible. Food service would be nice. A room or our own is important.<BR>
<BR>
Today I asked Sidetrack Tap in Depot Town, Ypsilanti about using their space. They have a smaller meeting room that would hold our typical meeting count of 15-20. This room is in their third storefront and has an assortment of tables and an attached bathroom. The space is closed off by double French doors.<BR>
<BR>
Food service is of course available.<BR>
The parking lot is across the street.<BR>
I attended a class meeting there a couple years back and it seemed suitable.<BR>
The owner is willing to host us on an "order as you wish" basis. I reported that when we met in the Classic Cup some members ordered meals, others just beverages.<BR>
<BR>
Are members of the Barony interested trying this as a change from Pierpont Commons? <BR>
<BR>
Please reply to All so we can discuss. <BR>
Any messages meant only for My Eyes would be best sent separately from this thread.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks,<BR>
Kay<BR>
</SPAN><FONT SIZE="5"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:16pt'><B>Kay Jarrell<BR>
</B></SPAN></FONT><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'><BR>
4363 Lyndon Lane Ann Arbor, MI 48105<BR>
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