[Cynnabar] Generalist Events- The real question?

[Aaron Elkiss]

To be clear, I am not seeking an exception for my community. The
services you describe are all ones I think would warrant a discounted
or waived site fee. Just because it isn't the norm to do so doesn't
mean it's right not to do so.

-a

On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 10:25 AM, Randy Asplund
<randyasplund at comcast.net> wrote:
> The real question comes at the end of this.
> First let me say that I do appreciate the physicality of being a musician. I
> spent many years in orchestra and have had times when I would literally play
> my guitar until 4am. I get the whole "blisters on my fingers" bit. But...
> Are musician and dance teachers at an event doing anything different to
> warrant being comped? Not in my POV.
> For example: There are clear circumstances where fighters are taught by
> people who are experts, people who came specifically for that, and who are
> expected to work a whole lot harder than a musician. The event is called
> TOC. At this event the chivalry specifically show up to work with the
> fighters. They are in armor and on the field all day, which is a very hard
> and grueling thing. We specifically evaluate what the fighter is doing and
> work with them to improve their skills. Many of us are booked to teach
> specific classes on aspects of fighting. We pay to be there. Nobody comps us
> for our efforts. And why do we do it? Because it is our hobby and it is fun.
> When I am asked to go teach scribal arts at events in our kingdom, I am
> specifically asked to be there to teach. I am helping that event to succeed
> in much the same way your musicians and dancers are helping, because it is a
> hobby aspect of my SCA participation, even though it is also my mundane
> profession.
> How are these things different from the services provided by the people
> Terpsichore comps?
> With the exception of the few mundanes who come to the event as hired
> professionals and the possible SCA person who is traveling an unreasonable
> distance such as from far out of kingdom (not within the range that any
> other SCA person would likely travel for an event), I don't feel that it is
> appropriate to comp SCA regular musicians and teachers for participating in
> their hobby.
> Yes, I know that puts your community in a spot because it changes the sub
> cultural expectation in the music/dance community. I understand that because
> of that subculture's evolution what I personally believe is not appropriate
> might nevertheless have to continue to exist or take a while to change so
> that it doesn't totally mess up the Terp event. The bottom line is that even
> though I feel it is inappropriate to comp these people, for the good of the
> group it might be worse to just have all of the rest of us force you to
> change "cold turkey". Doesn't work for smokers, so why should we expect it
> to work for Terp?
> Maybe THIS is the real question?
> RanthulfR
>
> On Sep 15, 2011, at 9:37 PM, Monique Rio wrote:
>
> My response to Gregoire is below. But to address some issues that were
> brought up after his email,
>
> I mention other organizations for a few reasons:
>
> 1)  To show that comping/discounting entry fee to events works in
> other organizations and the events make money, and people still are
> generous.
>
> 2)  Other groups are often better than us at developing intermediate
> and advanced skills in an organized fashion. Part of this is because
> they better recognize their teachers and volunteers. How many of us
> with advanced skills got them just by going to events? None. Classes
> offered at events are just the beginning; substantial outside work is
> always required.
>
> Also, the Renaissance festival is more like us than you might think.
> Most performers are not paid particularly well, and there are only a
> few true masters; most of them are there because they like performing
> at the faires. (We say this as people who have performed at a
> Renaissance festival.)
>
> Here are my thoughts on this:
>
> On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 5:55 PM, Greg Less <greg.less at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi All-
>
> 3) Teaching is volunteering. It's fun. It's also work. The fact that
>
> in general the SCA doesn't recognize teachers through some kind of
>
> discount (in effect making them pay to teach) doesn't make it right.
>
>
> Back to who should pay...
>
>   In my opinion, if we comp teachers for doing what they enjoy, we are
>
> effectively subsidizing the hobby of some of the players and not othes.
>
> Since this is an opinion, and one that not everyone agrees with, let’s set
>
> it aside for now and instead look at some of the various slippery slopes
>
> comping teachers can take us down…
>
> If I go to a dance workshop for swing dancing, the teachers get paid.
> If I go to a music workshop outside of the SCA, the teacher gets paid.
> We're not asking that SCA instructors get paid, but that they aren't
> having to pay to teach. The slippery slopes I think are exaggerated.
>
>
> Every time a fighter steps into armor and fights someone who is less
>
> skilled, teaching occurs. Should my entry into Grand Tourney be comped? What
>
> about a knight’s? How about a duke’s?
>
> The way I see it, the experienced fighter doesn't have to give the
> not-so-experienced fighter advice. Is it a good thing to do?
> Absolutely. But it isn't required. If she's having a bad day, she
> doesn't have to be there, and if she is there, she doesn't have to
> give advice.
>
> Now, if the experienced fighter is teaching a class on fighting
> (perhaps like what Sir Jocelyn did), that changes things. Now this
> person has specifically volunteered their time. People are coming to
> see this person. At the very least this person shouldn't have to pay
> to be there.
>
> Also, weren't people talking about maybe comping a few dukes to
> increase the quality of the fighting?
>
> At Terpsichore the last two years Master Midair spent the afternoon teaching
>
> Jason and I to play chess. We were so inferior to his skill level he was
>
> playing both of us at the same time, while knitting. He clearly was acting
>
> as a teacher at the event. I hope he had fun, but it might have bored him to
>
> tears - we are really rank amateurs... Should his site fee have been
>
> waived?
>
> It wasn't a chess event. If Midair didn't want to teach he didn't have
> to. He truly volunteered his time. He should have gotten comped for
> the track of classes he ran at 9AM. :P
>
>  What about people who work more than others? If one dance teacher at
>
> Terpsichore teaches one class, and another teaches four classes should the
>
> person who teaches four classes have four times as much site fee waived?
>
> That's why you work it out ahead of time. There are many ways to do
> it, and in any case as soon as a teacher's site fee is waived they're
> no longer paying to teach/volunteer. They're actually volunteering
> their time. To what extent they want to volunteer is up to them.
>
> - Jadzia
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