[Cynnabar] Generalist Events- The real question?

Monique Rio mrio at umich.edu
Fri Sep 16 14:43:52 UTC 2011


And don't forget that just because you are comped, doesn't mean you
have to take it. You can always be generous and pay anyway.

-Jadzia

On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 10:40 AM, Aaron Elkiss <aelkiss at umich.edu> wrote:
> To be clear, I am not seeking an exception for my community. The
> services you describe are all ones I think would warrant a discounted
> or waived site fee. Just because it isn't the norm to do so doesn't
> mean it's right not to do so.
>
> -a
>
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 10:25 AM, Randy Asplund
> <randyasplund at comcast.net> wrote:
>> The real question comes at the end of this.
>> First let me say that I do appreciate the physicality of being a musician. I
>> spent many years in orchestra and have had times when I would literally play
>> my guitar until 4am. I get the whole "blisters on my fingers" bit. But...
>> Are musician and dance teachers at an event doing anything different to
>> warrant being comped? Not in my POV.
>> For example: There are clear circumstances where fighters are taught by
>> people who are experts, people who came specifically for that, and who are
>> expected to work a whole lot harder than a musician. The event is called
>> TOC. At this event the chivalry specifically show up to work with the
>> fighters. They are in armor and on the field all day, which is a very hard
>> and grueling thing. We specifically evaluate what the fighter is doing and
>> work with them to improve their skills. Many of us are booked to teach
>> specific classes on aspects of fighting. We pay to be there. Nobody comps us
>> for our efforts. And why do we do it? Because it is our hobby and it is fun.
>> When I am asked to go teach scribal arts at events in our kingdom, I am
>> specifically asked to be there to teach. I am helping that event to succeed
>> in much the same way your musicians and dancers are helping, because it is a
>> hobby aspect of my SCA participation, even though it is also my mundane
>> profession.
>> How are these things different from the services provided by the people
>> Terpsichore comps?
>> With the exception of the few mundanes who come to the event as hired
>> professionals and the possible SCA person who is traveling an unreasonable
>> distance such as from far out of kingdom (not within the range that any
>> other SCA person would likely travel for an event), I don't feel that it is
>> appropriate to comp SCA regular musicians and teachers for participating in
>> their hobby.
>> Yes, I know that puts your community in a spot because it changes the sub
>> cultural expectation in the music/dance community. I understand that because
>> of that subculture's evolution what I personally believe is not appropriate
>> might nevertheless have to continue to exist or take a while to change so
>> that it doesn't totally mess up the Terp event. The bottom line is that even
>> though I feel it is inappropriate to comp these people, for the good of the
>> group it might be worse to just have all of the rest of us force you to
>> change "cold turkey". Doesn't work for smokers, so why should we expect it
>> to work for Terp?
>> Maybe THIS is the real question?
>> RanthulfR
>>
>> On Sep 15, 2011, at 9:37 PM, Monique Rio wrote:
>>
>> My response to Gregoire is below. But to address some issues that were
>> brought up after his email,
>>
>> I mention other organizations for a few reasons:
>>
>> 1)  To show that comping/discounting entry fee to events works in
>> other organizations and the events make money, and people still are
>> generous.
>>
>> 2)  Other groups are often better than us at developing intermediate
>> and advanced skills in an organized fashion. Part of this is because
>> they better recognize their teachers and volunteers. How many of us
>> with advanced skills got them just by going to events? None. Classes
>> offered at events are just the beginning; substantial outside work is
>> always required.
>>
>> Also, the Renaissance festival is more like us than you might think.
>> Most performers are not paid particularly well, and there are only a
>> few true masters; most of them are there because they like performing
>> at the faires. (We say this as people who have performed at a
>> Renaissance festival.)
>>
>> Here are my thoughts on this:
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 5:55 PM, Greg Less <greg.less at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi All-
>>
>> 3) Teaching is volunteering. It's fun. It's also work. The fact that
>>
>> in general the SCA doesn't recognize teachers through some kind of
>>
>> discount (in effect making them pay to teach) doesn't make it right.
>>
>>
>> Back to who should pay...
>>
>>   In my opinion, if we comp teachers for doing what they enjoy, we are
>>
>> effectively subsidizing the hobby of some of the players and not othes.
>>
>> Since this is an opinion, and one that not everyone agrees with, let’s set
>>
>> it aside for now and instead look at some of the various slippery slopes
>>
>> comping teachers can take us down…
>>
>> If I go to a dance workshop for swing dancing, the teachers get paid.
>> If I go to a music workshop outside of the SCA, the teacher gets paid.
>> We're not asking that SCA instructors get paid, but that they aren't
>> having to pay to teach. The slippery slopes I think are exaggerated.
>>
>>
>> Every time a fighter steps into armor and fights someone who is less
>>
>> skilled, teaching occurs. Should my entry into Grand Tourney be comped? What
>>
>> about a knight’s? How about a duke’s?
>>
>> The way I see it, the experienced fighter doesn't have to give the
>> not-so-experienced fighter advice. Is it a good thing to do?
>> Absolutely. But it isn't required. If she's having a bad day, she
>> doesn't have to be there, and if she is there, she doesn't have to
>> give advice.
>>
>> Now, if the experienced fighter is teaching a class on fighting
>> (perhaps like what Sir Jocelyn did), that changes things. Now this
>> person has specifically volunteered their time. People are coming to
>> see this person. At the very least this person shouldn't have to pay
>> to be there.
>>
>> Also, weren't people talking about maybe comping a few dukes to
>> increase the quality of the fighting?
>>
>> At Terpsichore the last two years Master Midair spent the afternoon teaching
>>
>> Jason and I to play chess. We were so inferior to his skill level he was
>>
>> playing both of us at the same time, while knitting. He clearly was acting
>>
>> as a teacher at the event. I hope he had fun, but it might have bored him to
>>
>> tears - we are really rank amateurs... Should his site fee have been
>>
>> waived?
>>
>> It wasn't a chess event. If Midair didn't want to teach he didn't have
>> to. He truly volunteered his time. He should have gotten comped for
>> the track of classes he ran at 9AM. :P
>>
>>  What about people who work more than others? If one dance teacher at
>>
>> Terpsichore teaches one class, and another teaches four classes should the
>>
>> person who teaches four classes have four times as much site fee waived?
>>
>> That's why you work it out ahead of time. There are many ways to do
>> it, and in any case as soon as a teacher's site fee is waived they're
>> no longer paying to teach/volunteer. They're actually volunteering
>> their time. To what extent they want to volunteer is up to them.
>>
>> - Jadzia
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