[Cynnabar] Searching for a new Meeting site.

Wed Mar 8 13:30:38 UTC 2017

Thanks, Gregoire! This really helped my understanding of what you are
saying.

-- Kasha

On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 8:25 AM, Greg Less <greg.less at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Your Excellency-
>
>  * Any topic that can be debated, should be open to debate.
>   - There is no such thing as "an uncontroversial expenditure." Every dime
> that the barony spends belongs to every member of the group and if someone
> has an issue with an expenditure they should feel welcome and encouraged to
> bring that issue before the group and discuss it.
>   - Details of running events should absolutely be discussed, debated, and
> only passed when consensus has been reached - we expect the populace to
> attend our events, pay our site fees, and then work on their day off. It is
> but the smallest of courtesy to give them a say in how they are going to be
> managed.
>
> * The three meeting process is in place so that people who have a concern
> have ample time to come to a meeting and present their concerns. Our trend
> toward calling expenditures "emergencies" and using the Seneschal's $50
> discretionary spending power disturbs me.
>
> * I can not know the secrets that lie in the hearts of men. For my own
> part, I do not believe that criticism of ideas is well received in the
> barony at this time.
>
> * I don't think a policy can be used to encourage debate.
>
> -Gregoire.
>
> On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 4:22 PM, Carol Perry Lagemann <
> carolanneperry at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Gregoire, I'm interested in the idea of more debate causing greater
>> attendance. I have some questions about what it might look like at a
>> Cynnabar meeting.
>>
>> * About what percentage of topics at the business meeting do you
>> currently feel would benefit from more debate? Are there items for which
>> you feel that debate is not necessary (possibly the approval of
>> uncontroversial expenditures, or details about running events)?
>>
>> * For items where debate is not necessary, how would you feel about NOT
>> having a debate, and instead limiting the boredom factor by shortening the
>> required approval time (for example, allowing the group to approve all
>> expenses in only one meeting)?
>>
>> * Why do people currently not give enough criticism and pushback? Do you
>> think there are people at the meetings who want to speak up but feel that
>> they can't, or is it more that those who attend the meetings don't feel
>> that debate is necessary? Is there a group of people who like to debate but
>> are avoiding meetings because they feel the culture of the meetings forbids
>> criticism?
>>
>> * What specific actions or policies could be used (by the seneschal, by
>> meeting attendees, or others) to increase the amount of debate at meetings?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Kasha
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 4:07 PM, Carol Perry Lagemann <
>> carolanneperry at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> *This is in answer to Aeffe's question about population distribution
>>> within the Barony.*
>>>
>>> This information is current as of *August 2015.* (I don't have more
>>> updated figures handy, but I can produce them if needed, given some time.)
>>>
>>> Total Cynnabar Population = 208
>>>
>>>    - Reside within Cynnabar ZIP Codes = 119
>>>    - Reside outside Cynnabar ZIP Codes = 24
>>>    - Location of residence unknown = 65
>>>
>>> Distribution within Cynnabar ZIP Codes
>>>
>>>    - 24 people - 48197 (Ypsilanti & Rawsonville)
>>>    - 18 people - 48103 (Ann Arbor, Delhi, Loch Alpine, Lodi Township, &
>>>    Scio Township)
>>>    - 14 people - 48108 (Ann Arbor & Pittsfield Township)
>>>    - 13 people - 48105 (Ann Arbor, Ann Arbor Township, Barton Hills,
>>>    Dixboro, & Superior Township)
>>>    - 10 people - 48198 (Ypsilanti, Willow Run, Superior Township, &
>>>    Superior Township)
>>>    - 9 people - 48176 (Saline)
>>>    - 7 people - 48104 (Ann Arbor & Pittsfield Township)
>>>    - 6 people - 48118 (Chelsea, Freedom Township, Lima Center, Lima
>>>    Township, Luce Township, Lyndon Township, & Sylvan Township)
>>>    - 5 people - 48130 (Dexter, Dover, Four Mile Lake, Hudson Mills,
>>>    Scio, & Webster)
>>>    - 4 people - 48170 (Plymouth)
>>>    - 3 people - 48160 (Milan, Augusta Township, Cone, London Township,
>>>    Milan Township, Mooreville, Oakville, Stony Creek, & York Township)
>>>    - 2 people - 48187 (Canton & Canton Township)
>>>    - 2 people - 48189 (Whitmore Lake, Hamburg, Northfield Township, &
>>>    Hamburg Township)
>>>    - 1 person - 48167 (Northville & Northville Township)
>>>    - 1 person - 48387 (Novi)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 4:03 PM, Greg Less via Barony <
>>> barony at cynnabar.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I believe that HE Hannah brings up a good point that if we move to
>>>> Sidetracks, we will likely be killing the pre-meeting workshop.
>>>>
>>>> I think that if we are unable to hold the workshop before the business
>>>> meetings we should be sure to find a time and venue where they can continue
>>>> to be held. Arts and Sciences and sharing of our collective knowledge is a
>>>> cornerstone of what makes the SCA special.
>>>>
>>>> During the winter months, if we are able to continue practicing at the
>>>> Union, it is convenient to hold the workshops in the Opera Room. That
>>>> doesn't give us a solution for summer though, when practice attendance
>>>> drops to near zero and we are outside, slave to the vagaries of Michigan
>>>> weather and bereft of electricity.
>>>>
>>>> -Gregoire.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 3:58 PM, Greg Less <greg.less at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In my opinion, the biggest incentive to attending meetings would be
>>>>> honest, lively debate over issues and proposals as opposed to our current
>>>>> trend to simply rubber stamp everything that gets put forward. Without
>>>>> discussion and debate, the three meeting process is an out-dated formality
>>>>> that should be gotten rid of. Indeed, at this point the entire meeting is a
>>>>> relic from a bygone era that could be easily replaced by email - IF - there
>>>>> isn't substantial opposition at least occasionally brought forth to the
>>>>> proposals and ideas being given for consideration.
>>>>>
>>>>> We seem to currently view any push back or criticism of an idea as a
>>>>> bad thing. I assert that critical conversation is how we improve ideas and
>>>>> make them even stronger. If only the most ill-conceived proposals are ever
>>>>> spoken against, I believe it is the process that is the heart of the
>>>>> problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> How does this increase attendance at meetings? If you like an idea
>>>>> being proposed, you will attend to be certain that it isn't shut down by an
>>>>> opposing opinion. If you don't like an idea, you will be sure to attend to
>>>>> make sure that the barony doesn't commit to an activity that will only
>>>>> bring heartache and infamy to the group. Participation at events will
>>>>> like-wise increase because a well fleshed out and debated event proposal
>>>>> that has been agreed upon by our traditional consensus model is something
>>>>> that the entire group has come together to, in some small way, create.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Gregoire.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 3:35 PM, Elizabeth Calhoun via Barony <
>>>>> barony at cynnabar.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Everyone --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I had the chance just now to go back and read the archived
>>>>>> discussions regarding the 2015 proposal to move from Classic Cup ... or
>>>>>> change the meeting night in order to remain at Classic Cup.  I read back
>>>>>> through previous years, when the group moved from the League to Borders to
>>>>>> CC ... and part of what I noticed was a comment that a meeting attendance
>>>>>> of 5-8 people is low (from historical trends).  Maybe we're working the
>>>>>> wrong problem.  Without denying that it's time to consider moving the
>>>>>> meeting itself (as Ilse suggests, the U is not ideal for many), suppose we
>>>>>> also consider what would bring people to the meetings?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A week ago or so, someone commented in the Facebook group that a
>>>>>> business meeting that started at 7:30pm and went to 9 really didn't hold
>>>>>> much attraction.  Maybe having workshops has been well-intentioned but the
>>>>>> *critical synergy* is 1) a "fun" venue and 2) a chance for group meals &
>>>>>> socializing, as we used to do at Classic Cup.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just my thoughts and questions.  Do we need "incentives" to come to
>>>>>> meetings?  And: How does having a separate student group on campus affect
>>>>>> the Baronial meetings (if at all)?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --Godaeth
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 3:25 PM, Margaret Kelly via Barony <
>>>>>> barony at cynnabar.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just curious, what are the other member population centers in the
>>>>>>> Barony?  Is Ypsi/Pittsfield the biggest?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 5:16 AM, Kay Jarrell via Barony <
>>>>>>> barony at cynnabar.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't see a barrier to the room. I was speaking directly to the
>>>>>>>> owner. She mentioned that other groups use the space for meetings. I
>>>>>>>> explained we were planning on 3 Mondays a month.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There is a long tradition of service and fraternal organizations
>>>>>>>> meeting in restaurants.  Lions Clubs, Optomists, Rotary... in fact Cynnabar
>>>>>>>> did a short series of talks on historical topics for the Chelsea Rotary
>>>>>>>> Club 20 years ago.  We would be following in this path.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am proposing we try this for our next meeting, and see if it
>>>>>>>> enables more or different people to attend. Perhaps this will revitalize
>>>>>>>> our decision-making process.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What other questions should we All talk about?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>> Kay
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mar 6, 2017 3:10 PM, "Carol Perry Lagemann" <
>>>>>>>> carolanneperry at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> One nice thing about that location is that we have a large cluster
>>>>>>>>> of members living near that area. (I know of 34 members who live in
>>>>>>>>> Ypsilanti. Plus another 41 live in Pittsfield Township, which is close by.)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> For everyone's reference, it looks like Sidetrack is about a
>>>>>>>>> 2-minute walk from the nearest bus stop on Route 4, and a 10-minute walk
>>>>>>>>> from the nearest bus stop on Route 5.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Would we be able to reliably reserve the room on Monday nights?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 2:56 PM, Kay Jarrell via Barony <
>>>>>>>>> barony at cynnabar.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I have been thinking about other places that we could hold
>>>>>>>>>> Cynnabar meetings. Our criteria are that the space be free, have closer
>>>>>>>>>> parking, and be accessible. Food service would be nice. A room or our own
>>>>>>>>>> is important.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Today I asked Sidetrack Tap in Depot Town, Ypsilanti about using
>>>>>>>>>> their space.  They have a smaller meeting room that would hold our typical
>>>>>>>>>> meeting count of 15-20.  This room is in their third storefront and has an
>>>>>>>>>> assortment of tables and an attached bathroom. The space is closed off by
>>>>>>>>>> double French doors.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Food service is of course available.
>>>>>>>>>> The parking lot is across the street.
>>>>>>>>>> I attended a class meeting there a couple years back and it
>>>>>>>>>> seemed suitable.
>>>>>>>>>> The owner is willing to host us on an "order as you wish" basis.
>>>>>>>>>> I reported that when we met in the Classic Cup some members ordered meals,
>>>>>>>>>> others just beverages.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Are members of the Barony interested  trying this as a change
>>>>>>>>>> from Pierpont Commons?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Please reply to All so we can discuss.
>>>>>>>>>> Any messages meant only for My Eyes would be best sent separately
>>>>>>>>>> from this thread.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>> Kay
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *Kay Jarrell*
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 4363 Lyndon Lane  Ann Arbor, MI 48105
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> kjarrell at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> HOME: 734-913-4053 <(734)%20913-4053>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> CELL: 734-645-3175 <(734)%20645-3175>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Barony mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Barony at cynnabar.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.cynnabar.org/listinfo/barony
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Barony mailing list
>>>>>>>> Barony at cynnabar.org
>>>>>>>> http://lists.cynnabar.org/listinfo/barony
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Barony mailing list
>>>>>>> Barony at cynnabar.org
>>>>>>> http://lists.cynnabar.org/listinfo/barony
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Elizabeth Calhoun
>>>>>> Law Library
>>>>>> University of Michigan Law School
>>>>>> Ann Arbor, MI 48109
>>>>>> (734) 764-9330
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Barony mailing list
>>>>>> Barony at cynnabar.org
>>>>>> http://lists.cynnabar.org/listinfo/barony
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Barony mailing list
>>>> Barony at cynnabar.org
>>>> http://lists.cynnabar.org/listinfo/barony
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.cynnabar.org/pipermail/barony/attachments/20170308/4a32a275/attachment-0001.html>