[Cynnabar] Searching for a new Meeting site.

David Hoornstra via Barony barony at cynnabar.org
Wed Mar 8 19:29:04 UTC 2017 

Hello everyone,
It¹s been long since I put my oar in, but this is the time.

I must say Gregoire hit the nail very close to the head.

A couple of things he did NOT say, I will.

€ A group like ours cannot be ³managed² like a corporation by trying to
³game² the numbers and trends. You have to do the real work of taking care
of individuals¹ needs. One of these is the FEELING that their voice matters.
Numbers management applied to this must accept that 100% of the people must
always be allowed a voice, and 100% of the concerns are eligible 100% of the
time.
€ Corollary: there is no such thing as ³enough criticism and pushback.²
³Enough² is not a measureable quantity. The required item isn¹t ³criticism
and pushback.² It is the guarantee that the opportunity will always be
there. Fear of losing these is a huge factor in national politics. Let¹s not
have that here.
€ No one at any time accepts criticism well. Those who take on the job of
³leadership² must ALL try to handle it as well as we can for the good of
others, i.e. the group.

Daibhid


From: Greg Less via Barony <barony at cynnabar.org>
Reply-To: Greg Less <greg.less at gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2017 08:25:41 -0500
To: Carol Perry Lagemann <carolanneperry at gmail.com>
Cc: barony <barony at cynnabar.org>
Subject: Re: [Cynnabar] Searching for a new Meeting site.

Hi Your Excellency-

 * Any topic that can be debated, should be open to debate. 
  - There is no such thing as "an uncontroversial expenditure." Every dime
that the barony spends belongs to every member of the group and if someone
has an issue with an expenditure they should feel welcome and encouraged to
bring that issue before the group and discuss it. 
  - Details of running events should absolutely be discussed, debated, and
only passed when consensus has been reached - we expect the populace to
attend our events, pay our site fees, and then work on their day off. It is
but the smallest of courtesy to give them a say in how they are going to be
managed. 

* The three meeting process is in place so that people who have a concern
have ample time to come to a meeting and present their concerns. Our trend
toward calling expenditures "emergencies" and using the Seneschal's $50
discretionary spending power disturbs me. 

* I can not know the secrets that lie in the hearts of men. For my own part,
I do not believe that criticism of ideas is well received in the barony at
this time. 

* I don't think a policy can be used to encourage debate. 

-Gregoire.  

On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 4:22 PM, Carol Perry Lagemann
<carolanneperry at gmail.com> wrote:
> Gregoire, I'm interested in the idea of more debate causing greater
> attendance. I have some questions about what it might look like at a Cynnabar
> meeting.
> 
> * About what percentage of topics at the business meeting do you currently
> feel would benefit from more debate? Are there items for which you feel that
> debate is not necessary (possibly the approval of uncontroversial
> expenditures, or details about running events)?
> 
> * For items where debate is not necessary, how would you feel about NOT having
> a debate, and instead limiting the boredom factor by shortening the required
> approval time (for example, allowing the group to approve all expenses in only
> one meeting)?
> 
> * Why do people currently not give enough criticism and pushback? Do you think
> there are people at the meetings who want to speak up but feel that they
> can't, or is it more that those who attend the meetings don't feel that debate
> is necessary? Is there a group of people who like to debate but are avoiding
> meetings because they feel the culture of the meetings forbids criticism?
> 
> * What specific actions or policies could be used (by the seneschal, by
> meeting attendees, or others) to increase the amount of debate at meetings?
> 
> Thanks,
> Kasha
> 
> On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 4:07 PM, Carol Perry Lagemann
> <carolanneperry at gmail.com> wrote:
>> This is in answer to Aeffe's question about population distribution within
>> the Barony.
>> 
>> This information is current as of August 2015. (I don't have more updated
>> figures handy, but I can produce them if needed, given some time.)
>> 
>> Total Cynnabar Population = 208
>> * Reside within Cynnabar ZIP Codes = 119
>> * Reside outside Cynnabar ZIP Codes = 24
>> * Location of residence unknown = 65
>> Distribution within Cynnabar ZIP Codes
>> * 24 people - 48197 (Ypsilanti & Rawsonville)
>> * 
>> * 18 people - 48103 (Ann Arbor, Delhi, Loch Alpine, Lodi Township, & Scio
>> Township) 
>> * 
>> * 14 people - 48108 (Ann Arbor & Pittsfield Township)
>> * 
>> * 13 people - 48105 (Ann Arbor, Ann Arbor Township, Barton Hills, Dixboro, &
>> Superior Township)
>> * 
>> * 10 people - 48198 (Ypsilanti, Willow Run, Superior Township, & Superior
>> Township) 
>> * 
>> * 9 people - 48176 (Saline)
>> * 
>> * 7 people - 48104 (Ann Arbor & Pittsfield Township)
>> * 
>> * 6 people - 48118 (Chelsea, Freedom Township, Lima Center, Lima Township,
>> Luce Township, Lyndon Township, & Sylvan Township)
>> * 
>> * 5 people - 48130 (Dexter, Dover, Four Mile Lake, Hudson Mills, Scio, &
>> Webster) 
>> * 
>> * 4 people - 48170 (Plymouth)
>> * 
>> * 3 people - 48160 (Milan, Augusta Township, Cone, London Township, Milan
>> Township, Mooreville, Oakville, Stony Creek, & York Township)
>> * 
>> * 2 people - 48187 (Canton & Canton Township)
>> * 
>> * 2 people - 48189 (Whitmore Lake, Hamburg, Northfield Township, & Hamburg
>> Township) 
>> * 
>> * 1 person - 48167 (Northville & Northville Township)
>> * 
>> * 1 person - 48387 (Novi)
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 4:03 PM, Greg Less via Barony <barony at cynnabar.org>
>> wrote:
>>> I believe that HE Hannah brings up a good point that if we move to
>>> Sidetracks, we will likely be killing the pre-meeting workshop. 
>>> 
>>> I think that if we are unable to hold the workshop before the business
>>> meetings we should be sure to find a time and venue where they can continue
>>> to be held. Arts and Sciences and sharing of our collective knowledge is a
>>> cornerstone of what makes the SCA special. 
>>> 
>>> During the winter months, if we are able to continue practicing at the
>>> Union, it is convenient to hold the workshops in the Opera Room. That
>>> doesn't give us a solution for summer though, when practice attendance drops
>>> to near zero and we are outside, slave to the vagaries of Michigan weather
>>> and bereft of electricity. 
>>> 
>>> -Gregoire. 
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 3:58 PM, Greg Less <greg.less at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> In my opinion, the biggest incentive to attending meetings would be honest,
>>>> lively debate over issues and proposals as opposed to our current trend to
>>>> simply rubber stamp everything that gets put forward. Without discussion
>>>> and debate, the three meeting process is an out-dated formality that should
>>>> be gotten rid of. Indeed, at this point the entire meeting is a relic from
>>>> a bygone era that could be easily replaced by email - IF - there isn't
>>>> substantial opposition at least occasionally brought forth to the proposals
>>>> and ideas being given for consideration. 
>>>> 
>>>> We seem to currently view any push back or criticism of an idea as a bad
>>>> thing. I assert that critical conversation is how we improve ideas and make
>>>> them even stronger. If only the most ill-conceived proposals are ever
>>>> spoken against, I believe it is the process that is the heart of the
>>>> problem. 
>>>> 
>>>> How does this increase attendance at meetings? If you like an idea being
>>>> proposed, you will attend to be certain that it isn't shut down by an
>>>> opposing opinion. If you don't like an idea, you will be sure to attend to
>>>> make sure that the barony doesn't commit to an activity that will only
>>>> bring heartache and infamy to the group. Participation at events will
>>>> like-wise increase because a well fleshed out and debated event proposal
>>>> that has been agreed upon by our traditional consensus model is something
>>>> that the entire group has come together to, in some small way, create.  
>>>> 
>>>> -Gregoire. 
>>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 3:35 PM, Elizabeth Calhoun via Barony
>>>> <barony at cynnabar.org> wrote:
>>>>> Everyone --
>>>>> 
>>>>> I had the chance just now to go back and read the archived discussions
>>>>> regarding the 2015 proposal to move from Classic Cup ... or change the
>>>>> meeting night in order to remain at Classic Cup.  I read back through
>>>>> previous years, when the group moved from the League to Borders to CC ...
>>>>> and part of what I noticed was a comment that a meeting attendance of 5-8
>>>>> people is low (from historical trends).  Maybe we're working the wrong
>>>>> problem.  Without denying that it's time to consider moving the meeting
>>>>> itself (as Ilse suggests, the U is not ideal for many), suppose we also
>>>>> consider what would bring people to the meetings? 
>>>>> 
>>>>> A week ago or so, someone commented in the Facebook group that a business
>>>>> meeting that started at 7:30pm and went to 9 really didn't hold much
>>>>> attraction.  Maybe having workshops has been well-intentioned but the
>>>>> *critical synergy* is 1) a "fun" venue and 2) a chance for group meals &
>>>>> socializing, as we used to do at Classic Cup. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Just my thoughts and questions.  Do we need "incentives" to come to
>>>>> meetings?  And: How does having a separate student group on campus affect
>>>>> the Baronial meetings (if at all)?
>>>>> 
>>>>> --Godaeth
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 3:25 PM, Margaret Kelly via Barony
>>>>> <barony at cynnabar.org> wrote:
>>>>>> Just curious, what are the other member population centers in the
>>>>>> Barony?  Is Ypsi/Pittsfield the biggest? 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 5:16 AM, Kay Jarrell via Barony
>>>>>> <barony at cynnabar.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> I don't see a barrier to the room. I was speaking directly to the owner.
>>>>>>> She mentioned that other groups use the space for meetings. I explained
>>>>>>> we were planning on 3 Mondays a month.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> There is a long tradition of service and fraternal organizations meeting
>>>>>>> in restaurants.  Lions Clubs, Optomists, Rotary... in fact Cynnabar did
>>>>>>> a short series of talks on historical topics for the Chelsea Rotary Club
>>>>>>> 20 years ago.  We would be following in this path.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I am proposing we try this for our next meeting, and see if it enables
>>>>>>> more or different people to attend. Perhaps this will revitalize our
>>>>>>> decision-making process.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> What other questions should we All talk about?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Kay
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Mar 6, 2017 3:10 PM, "Carol Perry Lagemann"
>>>>>>> <carolanneperry at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> One nice thing about that location is that we have a large cluster of
>>>>>>> members living near that area. (I know of 34 members who live in
>>>>>>> Ypsilanti. Plus another 41 live in Pittsfield Township, which is close
>>>>>>> by.)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> For everyone's reference, it looks like Sidetrack is about a 2-minute
>>>>>>> walk from the nearest bus stop on Route 4, and a 10-minute walk from the
>>>>>>> nearest bus stop on Route 5.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Would we be able to reliably reserve the room on Monday nights?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 2:56 PM, Kay Jarrell via Barony
>>>>>>> <barony at cynnabar.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> I have been thinking about other places that we could hold Cynnabar
>>>>>>> meetings. Our criteria are that the space be free, have closer parking,
>>>>>>> and be accessible. Food service would be nice. A room or our own is
>>>>>>> important.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Today I asked Sidetrack Tap in Depot Town, Ypsilanti about using their
>>>>>>> space.  They have a smaller meeting room that would hold our typical
>>>>>>> meeting count of 15-20.  This room is in their third storefront and has
>>>>>>> an assortment of tables and an attached bathroom. The space is closed
>>>>>>> off by double French doors.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Food service is of course available.
>>>>>>> The parking lot is across the street.
>>>>>>> I attended a class meeting there a couple years back and it seemed
>>>>>>> suitable.
>>>>>>> The owner is willing to host us on an "order as you wish" basis. I
>>>>>>> reported that when we met in the Classic Cup some members ordered meals,
>>>>>>> others just beverages.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Are members of the Barony interested  trying this as a change from
>>>>>>> Pierpont Commons? 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Please reply to All so we can discuss.
>>>>>>> Any messages meant only for My Eyes would be best sent separately from
>>>>>>> this thread.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Kay
>>>>>>> Kay Jarrell
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 4363 Lyndon Lane  Ann Arbor, MI 48105
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> kjarrell at gmail.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> HOME: 734-913-4053 <tel:(734)%20913-4053>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> CELL: 734-645-3175 <tel:(734)%20645-3175>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Barony mailing list
>>>>>>> Barony at cynnabar.org
>>>>>>> http://lists.cynnabar.org/listinfo/barony
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Barony mailing list
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>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Barony mailing list
>>>>>> Barony at cynnabar.org
>>>>>> http://lists.cynnabar.org/listinfo/barony
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Elizabeth Calhoun
>>>>> Law Library
>>>>> University of Michigan Law School
>>>>> Ann Arbor, MI 48109
>>>>> (734) 764-9330 <tel:(734)%20764-9330>
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Barony mailing list
>>>>> Barony at cynnabar.org
>>>>> http://lists.cynnabar.org/listinfo/barony
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
> 



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