[Cynnabar] The Thrones

Wed Nov 18 11:36:03 EST 2009

LoL! OK, I had a gut feeling that you weren't actually insane.  
However, I have a feeling that this test was flawed from a scientific  
standpoint because it only tested an extreme situation, and not a  
typical one.

Let's look at the process and think about why it went as it did.

First, let us consider human nature. I think it is human nature to  
stand off when people who are attending a meeting come up with an  
idea and want to go with it. I think most people will naturally  
expect that some proposal or other was made with good intent, and  
that the people who are there and actually know what was discussed  
have a good understanding and can be usually trusted to make the  
right decision. In cases where a small priority item is being  
discussed, such as "should the group contribute $50 to buy some  
fencing gear," we probably won't have much, if any, discussion over  
email from people who were not at the meeting. They will trust the  
people who were there.

What' are the drawbacks of letting the decisions of a meeting happen  
without emailing out details of the discussion? Well, reduced input  
from wider perspectives is a biggie. And also, when you trust what  
amounts to a committee to make a decision for a group and then it  
turns out bad, the group really had no information to let them know  
there was something to which they might have objected. For example,  
to pick a totally polar issue, what if the meeting group decided to  
participate as Cynnabar in a demo at an abortion fundraiser? It is  
pretty clear that some people would be for it and others would be  
against it. If the information that described the event were not  
listed in the minutes, but only the title "Mother's Demo" given, you  
can see how it could be a problem. There is a trust that people who  
can't make a meeting must be willing to give to those who can make  
it, and those attending need to earn that trust for it to work well.

Clearly, when something really extreme, like a $2k price for thrones  
comes up, someone is going to notice. But who actually came out and  
said "What are you idiots smoking? This is a stupid idea!" There was  
a time when some people in Cynnabar would have taken a tack like  
that. Instead we had people coyly asking questions, hoping to bring  
out information without being rude. It is good to see proof that we  
have become more mature in our responses, but the lack of a strong  
negative shows us one more thing. It shows us that the group on email  
is still pre-supposing that the meeting attendees probably know  
something that makes this at least credible.

Well, we do that with US congress too, and as we all know THAT never  
goes badly....

So I think the upshot is:
1) We probably do need more detail than we have now in the minutes  
with pros and cons of bigger items and obviously controversial items,
and
2) The smaller items seem to be handled well enough by the attendees,  
and to the satisfaction of the group without the details going  
online. However, the test didn't really prove whether 3 weeks was  
adequate or not, since it didn't test  online the time it takes  
discussing details of a subject.

RanthulfR

On Nov 18, 2009, at 10:35 AM, Greg Less wrote:

> Hi All-
>
>    Here's the full story/confession:
>
>    Two weeks ago at the business meeting I proposed $2000 for new  
> thrones as an experiment. We were discussing 1) whether or not the  
> meeting minutes were an effective means of communicating the  
> business of the barony to those who can not attend the Monday night  
> meetings and 2) whether or not the three week discussion period was  
> necessary for completing financial transactions. The impetus was  
> from some of the questions that were posed at the Fireside Chat  
> with the Candidates, as well as declining Monday Meeting attendance.
>
>    The idea (which was all mine, and I take full responsibility for  
> it) was that we would take something relatively reasonable, such as  
> new regalia for the Barony, and propose an outrageous budget for  
> it. The choice of thrones was arbitrary. We would put this in the  
> minutes and see if anyone noticed. If it was noticed, I wanted to  
> see what the response would be and how it would be delivered  
> (either by increased email traffic, or by higher meeting  
> attendance). Also, depending upon the repsonse and how long it took  
> for people to become engaged I figured that we could get a feel for  
> whether the three weeks of discussion prior to making any business  
> decisions was still a valid time scale.
>
>     Fruitful discussion has taken place and I think we know now  
> that the group is reading and paying attention to the minutes (or  
> at least to Sir RanthulfR's responses to the minutes!) and that  
> they are NOT okay with budgeting such a huge expenditure without a  
> much better proposal in place. It did, however, take more than one  
> week for this to come to a head, thus proving (?) that the three  
> week discussion period is slow but most likely necessary.
>
>     Basically, this tells me that the system that Cynnabar has had  
> in place from the beginning is a good one - A proposal needs to be  
> well thought out and thoroughly presented to the group for  
> expenditures, the details of the proposal need to be disseminated  
> to the group for reflection and discussion, and three weeks is a  
> good time period for this discussion to be fully hashed out.
>
>    I apologize to any and all that feel that there was malice in  
> these actions. That was not the intention, I assure you. If you  
> would like to discuss this more, please feel free to contact me  
> directly.
>
>    Also, for the record, while the current thrones could use some  
> maintenance and TLC, they are not in dire need of replacement.
>
>
> Yours,
>
> Baron Gregoire.
> _______________________________________________
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> Barony at cynnabar.org
> http://lists.cynnabar.org/listinfo/barony

Randy Asplund
www.RandyAsplund.com
Maker of Medieval books and
Illustrator of Science Fiction & Fantasy
(734) 663-0954
2101 S. Circle Dr. Ann Arbor, MI 48103

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