[Cynnabar] Generalist Events vs. Niche Events or Opening the Can of Worms

Monique Rio mrio at umich.edu
Thu Sep 15 14:01:42 UTC 2011


Also want to address some points...

-Jadzia

On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 8:30 AM, dirk <dirkmayhew at comcast.net> wrote:
>> To sum up, I think we should comp volunteers at our niche events.
>
> I disagree, but if you want to comp people, build it into the event
> budget proposal.

I agree, it should be put in the budget proposal and should be worked
out for each event.

> I've run, helped run, & attended quite a few "niche" events in the last
> thirty years.  Success, in my experience, is based on internal
> motivations of an enthusiastic group, not site fee.

Just curious, what niche events are you talking about?

> If you're predicting a shortfall of volunteers, remind me the site &
> date please?  I'll do what I can, and I bet others will, also.

I don't predict a shortfall of volunteers for Terpsichore. We haven't
ever had that problem since I've been in the group. (Yay!) I'm just
saying it's not fair to give a discount to teachers and comp some of
the musicians (my reasons for why we should continue to do this are in
my original email) and then expect the people working all day in the
tavern and at gate to pay full price for the event.

> - dirk
>
> On Wed, 2011-09-14 at 14:51 -0400, David Hoornstra wrote:
>> What she said. Huzzay.
>>
>> Daibhid
>>
>>
>> > From: Monique Rio <mrio at umich.edu>
>> > Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 11:56:40 -0400
>> > To: cynnabar <barony at cynnabar.org>
>> > Subject: [Cynnabar] Generalist Events vs. Niche Events or Opening the Can of
>> > Worms
>> >
>> > The question of whether or not to comp/give a discount to volunteers
>> > is actually part of a bigger issue: niche events vs. generalist
>> > events. The issue is complicated, so I think it deserves a thought out
>> > response. Below is the summary. Below that is is the justification.
>> > There are headings to make this very TLDR email more digestable.
>> >
>> > THE SUMMARY
>> > In general we like the idea of everyone chipping in to pay for the
>> > space to participate in their hobby. This doesn¹t work as well at
>> > niche events since not everyone is able to do their thing. However,
>> > there are many good reasons why we should do niche events even though
>> > not everyone can fully participate. There are also good reasons why
>> > teachers should get a discount and musicians should be comped at
>> > Terpsichore.
>> >
>> > I suggest we should comp/give discounts to volunteers at our niche
>> > events, but not at generalist events. Who we comp at niche events
>> > should be worked out ahead of time so that the everyone finds it fair.
>> > Also, niche events are awesome and I¹m so glad we do them.
>> >
>> > CURRENT GENERAL FEELINGS ABOUT WHO SHOULD PAY AT SCA EVENTS
>> > From what I gather the general SCA opinion on paying for events is
>> > that everyone should except royalty and possibly ³guests of honor.² We
>> > all chip in to pay for the space to partake in our hobby. We all
>> > volunteer so that the event is successful.
>> >
>> > This works very well for generalist events like Twelfth Night,
>> > Wassail, Val Day etc. At these events there¹s something for everyone.
>> > You¹d come to the event anyway even if your services weren¹t needed.
>> > Generally volunteer positions aren¹t too intense. It¹s an hour or two
>> > out of your day. There are still plenty more hours left to do what you
>> > want.
>> >
>> > For niche events this model doesn¹t work as well. One particular group
>> > benefits a lot more than the others. Everyone not in that group is in
>> > a support role. For many of the people in those support roles, the
>> > main reason they come to a niche event is that they want to support
>> > the barony and/or they have a job to do. If it weren¹t for those
>> > things they wouldn¹t go. In my opinion, it¹s asking a lot for
>> > non-dancers at Terpsichore to pay to volunteer at gate or to pay to
>> > work in the kitchen. At the very least they should get a discount and
>> > probably should be fully comped. There¹s a difference between helping
>> > to make an event you¹re enjoying successful and paying to volunteer. I
>> > don¹t think we should ask people to pay to volunteer. And honestly I
>> > think there should be a discount for any non-dancer who attends.
>> >
>> > WHY WE FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE WITH NICHE EVENTS
>> > I think a lot of us feel uncomfortable about niche events for a number
>> > of reasons.
>> >
>> > 1) The structure is inherently unfair. One group is catered to but
>> > everyone is called to help out.
>> >
>> > 2) They are the exception to the rule, especially at the Baronial
>> > level. Most Baronial events in our kingdom look the same: fighting all
>> > day, one track of classes on a wide variety of topics, court, and
>> > feast.  Maybe some shopping. Maybe a ball. Niche events like Grand
>> > Tourney and Terpsichore at the Baronial level are rare.
>> >
>> > 3) In the modern world, the generalist event fits the house party
>> > model. At a house party there¹s usually something for everyone there
>> > to do, hosts and guests alike. The host takes on all the
>> > administrative tasks and usually pays for food and drink. The
>> > expectation is that eventually someone else will host a party and take
>> > on the admin duties, but even if they don¹t that¹s OK, hosting is fun.
>> > It makes sense that at this kind of event everyone pays including the
>> > host. We like this model. It¹s warm and fuzzy feeling.
>> >
>> > If a niche event were a house party it¹d look like this. Let¹s say
>> > there are two housemates. One housemate loves sports the other
>> > housemate is ambivalent at best about sports. The housemates have
>> > separate checking accounts. Sports-Lover wants to host a Superbowl
>> > Party and expects Sports-Ambivalent to help out. Sports-Ambivalent
>> > wants to promote social harmony so agrees to help out with party
>> > management. But that isn¹t enough. Sports-Lover also expects
>> > Sports-Ambivalent to help out with party expenses from his personal
>> > account. Time and money are expected from Sports-Ambivalent. This is
>> > not a happy model. We do not like this.
>> >
>> > Granted I know this is how lots of family parties look. Not only do
>> > you not want to go, but you have to get a gift for the person(s) of
>> > honor. I don¹t think this is either good or healthy. I think it¹s a
>> > lot more respectful to everyone if we recognize who attends out of
>> > obligation and who¹s there because he wants to be. It¹d be a lot nicer
>> > if Sports-Lover said to Sports-Ambivalent, ³I know you don¹t really
>> > want to be here. I appreciate your help, that¹s payment enough.² That
>> > gives Sports-Ambivalent a chance to be generous and chip in if he
>> > feels so inclined.
>> >
>> > Also, most niche events look a lot like modern world workshops.
>> > Terpsichore in particular looks like a dance workshop AACTMAD would
>> > host. (AACTMAD = Ann Arbor Community for Traditional Music and Dance).
>> > These workshops are financed by the participants. Volunteers either
>> > get a discount or get their entry fee comped depending on how much
>> > they volunteer. (Same model as Science Fiction Conventions.) Teachers
>> > and Callers are paid. Musicians are paid. The main difference is
>> > AACTMAD is a dance/music organization. You¹re not going to have people
>> > who neither dance nor play music volunteering. But that to me means
>> > it¹s even more silly to expect our volunteers who neither dance nor
>> > play music to have to pay the full entrance fee at Terpsichore. Still,
>> > we don¹t like this model because it¹s not the happy house party model.
>> >
>> > WHY NICHE EVENTS ARE WORTH HOSTING
>> > So, if niche events are inherently unfair and don¹t fit the good happy
>> > house party model, should we even have them at all? I think we
>> > absolutely should, and here¹s why:
>> >
>> > 1) They bring prestige to the Barony. People will travel to a niche
>> > event. They won¹t travel to an event that looks like every other event
>> > in their region.
>> >
>> > 2) They are where mastery is developed. It¹s actually really hard to
>> > develop mastery in a systematic way through the SCA. At any event with
>> > a lot of classes, the vast vast majority of them will be entry level.
>> > They have to be because you don¹t know how many people in your field
>> > will be at a given generalist event and everyone assumes they can drop
>> > in on whatever class they want to. Kasha for instance taught a great
>> > class at Wassail and Twelfth night last year on the music of the Notre
>> > Dame School. At Wassail several people came to her class, most of
>> > which were from the choir, some of which had very little music
>> > experience. At Twelfth Night only Aaron and I showed up. This class
>> > would have been well attended at Cecilia Day, but I think it didn¹t
>> > work at Twelfth Night because it was too deep.
>> >
>> > The only generalist event I can think of where beyond entry level
>> > classes work is Pennsic, and that¹s because Pennsic is huge. And even
>> > at Pennsic, you can¹t go as in-depth as you could at a niche event.
>> >
>> > Aside from Pennsic (and maybe RUM... I¹ve never been there), if you
>> > really want to learn your craft you need to go to a Known World
>> > Symposium and/or find someone to apprentice to. Or if you want to
>> > learn about dance you can go to Terpsichore. Niche events are where
>> > it¹s at.
>> >
>> > 3) They promote greater cohesiveness in the Barony. Generalist events
>> > are more cliquish. Fighters hang out with fighters, dancers with
>> > dancers, class goers with class goers. There¹s no reason for these
>> > groups to mingle. At Terpsichore people who don¹t ordinarily dance
>> > either try it out or help to make the dancing great. At Grand Tourney
>> > non-fighters get a chance to actually see what this fighting thing is
>> > all about since nothing else is competing for their attention. Also I
>> > think niche events are where groups really get a chance to see how
>> > much their Barony supports them.
>> >
>> > WHY TEACHERS AT TERP SHOULD GET A DISCOUNT
>> > We should give Terp teachers a discount because that¹s how every other
>> > dance organization in the country does it. If you teach at workshop
>> > you get paid to do so. Outside of the SCA I¹ve never heard of dance
>> > teachers paying for the privilege of teaching. And the classes taught
>> > at Terpsichore are not ³lowest-common denominator classes². Some are,
>> > but many of the classes are based on new research. Also, as Alina
>> > mentioned, the majority of our teachers aren¹t from the Barony. Giving
>> > them a discount is a way of saying ³Thank you² for helping to make our
>> > event great. This discount is appreciated. And one more thing,
>> > teaching at Terpsichore is actually a bit of a sacrifice on the part
>> > of the teacher. At Terpsichore the maximum number of classes someone
>> > can attend is 5 (not counting Midair¹s 9AM track). Every class you
>> > teach is one you aren¹t taking. Some of our teachers teach more than
>> > one class.
>> >
>> > WHY MUSICIANS SHOULD BE COMPED IF THEY¹RE ONLY PLAYING FOR THE TERP BALL
>> > For the musicians, again, this is how it works in every dance
>> > organization in the country. Dancers chip in to pay for the band. The
>> > band gets paid. Also, it¹s my impression that Cynnabar has hired bands
>> > to play for Terpsichore in the past. The main difference between
>> > Ritornello and Ye Hired Band is that Ritornello is local and we
>> > haven¹t made any CDs yet. We practice ahead of time. We aren¹t an open
>> > pit. Etc. Etc. If we were an open pit, it¹d be different. Also, the
>> > Pittsfield Open Band, a local community band that plays for contra
>> > dances and is very comparable to Ritornello gets /paid/ to play for
>> > said contra dances. We¹re not suggesting that Ritornello get paid, but
>> > simply that if someone in the band is only coming to play for the
>> > evening, that they shouldn¹t have to pay to do that. If they go to
>> > classes during the day then they should pay since they¹re now a
>> > participant.
>> >
>> > SUMMARY
>> > To sum up, I think we should comp volunteers at our niche events. I
>> > don¹t think we should comp volunteers at generalist events. I think
>> > who we comp at niche events should be worked out ahead of time so that
>> > the everyone finds it fair. Also, niche events are awesome and I¹m so
>> > glad we do them.
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Barony mailing list
>> > Barony at cynnabar.org
>> > http://lists.cynnabar.org/listinfo/barony
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Barony mailing list
>> Barony at cynnabar.org
>> http://lists.cynnabar.org/listinfo/barony
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Barony mailing list
> Barony at cynnabar.org
> http://lists.cynnabar.org/listinfo/barony
>


More information about the Barony mailing list