[Cynnabar] Generalist Events vs. Niche Events or Opening the Can of Worms

[dirk]

responding off-list

On Thu, 2011-09-15 at 10:01 -0400, Monique Rio wrote:
> Also want to address some points...
> 
> -Jadzia
> 
> On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 8:30 AM, dirk <dirkmayhew at comcast.net> wrote:
> >> To sum up, I think we should comp volunteers at our niche events.
> >
> > I disagree, but if you want to comp people, build it into the event
> > budget proposal.
> 
> I agree, it should be put in the budget proposal and should be worked
> out for each event.
> 
> > I've run, helped run, & attended quite a few "niche" events in the last
> > thirty years.  Success, in my experience, is based on internal
> > motivations of an enthusiastic group, not site fee.
> 
> Just curious, what niche events are you talking about?
> 
> > If you're predicting a shortfall of volunteers, remind me the site &
> > date please?  I'll do what I can, and I bet others will, also.
> 
> I don't predict a shortfall of volunteers for Terpsichore. We haven't
> ever had that problem since I've been in the group. (Yay!) I'm just
> saying it's not fair to give a discount to teachers and comp some of
> the musicians (my reasons for why we should continue to do this are in
> my original email) and then expect the people working all day in the
> tavern and at gate to pay full price for the event.
> 
> > - dirk
> >
> > On Wed, 2011-09-14 at 14:51 -0400, David Hoornstra wrote:
> >> What she said. Huzzay.
> >>
> >> Daibhid
> >>
> >>
> >> > From: Monique Rio <mrio at umich.edu>
> >> > Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 11:56:40 -0400
> >> > To: cynnabar <barony at cynnabar.org>
> >> > Subject: [Cynnabar] Generalist Events vs. Niche Events or Opening the Can of
> >> > Worms
> >> >
> >> > The question of whether or not to comp/give a discount to volunteers
> >> > is actually part of a bigger issue: niche events vs. generalist
> >> > events. The issue is complicated, so I think it deserves a thought out
> >> > response. Below is the summary. Below that is is the justification.
> >> > There are headings to make this very TLDR email more digestable.
> >> >
> >> > THE SUMMARY
> >> > In general we like the idea of everyone chipping in to pay for the
> >> > space to participate in their hobby. This doesn¹t work as well at
> >> > niche events since not everyone is able to do their thing. However,
> >> > there are many good reasons why we should do niche events even though
> >> > not everyone can fully participate. There are also good reasons why
> >> > teachers should get a discount and musicians should be comped at
> >> > Terpsichore.
> >> >
> >> > I suggest we should comp/give discounts to volunteers at our niche
> >> > events, but not at generalist events. Who we comp at niche events
> >> > should be worked out ahead of time so that the everyone finds it fair.
> >> > Also, niche events are awesome and I¹m so glad we do them.
> >> >
> >> > CURRENT GENERAL FEELINGS ABOUT WHO SHOULD PAY AT SCA EVENTS
> >> > From what I gather the general SCA opinion on paying for events is
> >> > that everyone should except royalty and possibly ³guests of honor.² We
> >> > all chip in to pay for the space to partake in our hobby. We all
> >> > volunteer so that the event is successful.
> >> >
> >> > This works very well for generalist events like Twelfth Night,
> >> > Wassail, Val Day etc. At these events there¹s something for everyone.
> >> > You¹d come to the event anyway even if your services weren¹t needed.
> >> > Generally volunteer positions aren¹t too intense. It¹s an hour or two
> >> > out of your day. There are still plenty more hours left to do what you
> >> > want.
> >> >
> >> > For niche events this model doesn¹t work as well. One particular group
> >> > benefits a lot more than the others. Everyone not in that group is in
> >> > a support role. For many of the people in those support roles, the
> >> > main reason they come to a niche event is that they want to support
> >> > the barony and/or they have a job to do. If it weren¹t for those
> >> > things they wouldn¹t go. In my opinion, it¹s asking a lot for
> >> > non-dancers at Terpsichore to pay to volunteer at gate or to pay to
> >> > work in the kitchen. At the very least they should get a discount and
> >> > probably should be fully comped. There¹s a difference between helping
> >> > to make an event you¹re enjoying successful and paying to volunteer. I
> >> > don¹t think we should ask people to pay to volunteer. And honestly I
> >> > think there should be a discount for any non-dancer who attends.
> >> >
> >> > WHY WE FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE WITH NICHE EVENTS
> >> > I think a lot of us feel uncomfortable about niche events for a number
> >> > of reasons.
> >> >
> >> > 1) The structure is inherently unfair. One group is catered to but
> >> > everyone is called to help out.
> >> >
> >> > 2) They are the exception to the rule, especially at the Baronial
> >> > level. Most Baronial events in our kingdom look the same: fighting all
> >> > day, one track of classes on a wide variety of topics, court, and
> >> > feast.  Maybe some shopping. Maybe a ball. Niche events like Grand
> >> > Tourney and Terpsichore at the Baronial level are rare.
> >> >
> >> > 3) In the modern world, the generalist event fits the house party
> >> > model. At a house party there¹s usually something for everyone there
> >> > to do, hosts and guests alike. The host takes on all the
> >> > administrative tasks and usually pays for food and drink. The
> >> > expectation is that eventually someone else will host a party and take
> >> > on the admin duties, but even if they don¹t that¹s OK, hosting is fun.
> >> > It makes sense that at this kind of event everyone pays including the
> >> > host. We like this model. It¹s warm and fuzzy feeling.
> >> >
> >> > If a niche event were a house party it¹d look like this. Let¹s say
> >> > there are two housemates. One housemate loves sports the other
> >> > housemate is ambivalent at best about sports. The housemates have
> >> > separate checking accounts. Sports-Lover wants to host a Superbowl
> >> > Party and expects Sports-Ambivalent to help out. Sports-Ambivalent
> >> > wants to promote social harmony so agrees to help out with party
> >> > management. But that isn¹t enough. Sports-Lover also expects
> >> > Sports-Ambivalent to help out with party expenses from his personal
> >> > account. Time and money are expected from Sports-Ambivalent. This is
> >> > not a happy model. We do not like this.
> >> >
> >> > Granted I know this is how lots of family parties look. Not only do
> >> > you not want to go, but you have to get a gift for the person(s) of
> >> > honor. I don¹t think this is either good or healthy. I think it¹s a
> >> > lot more respectful to everyone if we recognize who attends out of
> >> > obligation and who¹s there because he wants to be. It¹d be a lot nicer
> >> > if Sports-Lover said to Sports-Ambivalent, ³I know you don¹t really
> >> > want to be here. I appreciate your help, that¹s payment enough.² That
> >> > gives Sports-Ambivalent a chance to be generous and chip in if he
> >> > feels so inclined.
> >> >
> >> > Also, most niche events look a lot like modern world workshops.
> >> > Terpsichore in particular looks like a dance workshop AACTMAD would
> >> > host. (AACTMAD = Ann Arbor Community for Traditional Music and Dance).
> >> > These workshops are financed by the participants. Volunteers either
> >> > get a discount or get their entry fee comped depending on how much
> >> > they volunteer. (Same model as Science Fiction Conventions.) Teachers
> >> > and Callers are paid. Musicians are paid. The main difference is
> >> > AACTMAD is a dance/music organization. You¹re not going to have people
> >> > who neither dance nor play music volunteering. But that to me means
> >> > it¹s even more silly to expect our volunteers who neither dance nor
> >> > play music to have to pay the full entrance fee at Terpsichore. Still,
> >> > we don¹t like this model because it¹s not the happy house party model.
> >> >
> >> > WHY NICHE EVENTS ARE WORTH HOSTING
> >> > So, if niche events are inherently unfair and don¹t fit the good happy
> >> > house party model, should we even have them at all? I think we
> >> > absolutely should, and here¹s why:
> >> >
> >> > 1) They bring prestige to the Barony. People will travel to a niche
> >> > event. They won¹t travel to an event that looks like every other event
> >> > in their region.
> >> >
> >> > 2) They are where mastery is developed. It¹s actually really hard to
> >> > develop mastery in a systematic way through the SCA. At any event with
> >> > a lot of classes, the vast vast majority of them will be entry level.
> >> > They have to be because you don¹t know how many people in your field
> >> > will be at a given generalist event and everyone assumes they can drop
> >> > in on whatever class they want to. Kasha for instance taught a great
> >> > class at Wassail and Twelfth night last year on the music of the Notre
> >> > Dame School. At Wassail several people came to her class, most of
> >> > which were from the choir, some of which had very little music
> >> > experience. At Twelfth Night only Aaron and I showed up. This class
> >> > would have been well attended at Cecilia Day, but I think it didn¹t
> >> > work at Twelfth Night because it was too deep.
> >> >
> >> > The only generalist event I can think of where beyond entry level
> >> > classes work is Pennsic, and that¹s because Pennsic is huge. And even
> >> > at Pennsic, you can¹t go as in-depth as you could at a niche event.
> >> >
> >> > Aside from Pennsic (and maybe RUM... I¹ve never been there), if you
> >> > really want to learn your craft you need to go to a Known World
> >> > Symposium and/or find someone to apprentice to. Or if you want to
> >> > learn about dance you can go to Terpsichore. Niche events are where
> >> > it¹s at.
> >> >
> >> > 3) They promote greater cohesiveness in the Barony. Generalist events
> >> > are more cliquish. Fighters hang out with fighters, dancers with
> >> > dancers, class goers with class goers. There¹s no reason for these
> >> > groups to mingle. At Terpsichore people who don¹t ordinarily dance
> >> > either try it out or help to make the dancing great. At Grand Tourney
> >> > non-fighters get a chance to actually see what this fighting thing is
> >> > all about since nothing else is competing for their attention. Also I
> >> > think niche events are where groups really get a chance to see how
> >> > much their Barony supports them.
> >> >
> >> > WHY TEACHERS AT TERP SHOULD GET A DISCOUNT
> >> > We should give Terp teachers a discount because that¹s how every other
> >> > dance organization in the country does it. If you teach at workshop
> >> > you get paid to do so. Outside of the SCA I¹ve never heard of dance
> >> > teachers paying for the privilege of teaching. And the classes taught
> >> > at Terpsichore are not ³lowest-common denominator classes². Some are,
> >> > but many of the classes are based on new research. Also, as Alina
> >> > mentioned, the majority of our teachers aren¹t from the Barony. Giving
> >> > them a discount is a way of saying ³Thank you² for helping to make our
> >> > event great. This discount is appreciated. And one more thing,
> >> > teaching at Terpsichore is actually a bit of a sacrifice on the part
> >> > of the teacher. At Terpsichore the maximum number of classes someone
> >> > can attend is 5 (not counting Midair¹s 9AM track). Every class you
> >> > teach is one you aren¹t taking. Some of our teachers teach more than
> >> > one class.
> >> >
> >> > WHY MUSICIANS SHOULD BE COMPED IF THEY¹RE ONLY PLAYING FOR THE TERP BALL
> >> > For the musicians, again, this is how it works in every dance
> >> > organization in the country. Dancers chip in to pay for the band. The
> >> > band gets paid. Also, it¹s my impression that Cynnabar has hired bands
> >> > to play for Terpsichore in the past. The main difference between
> >> > Ritornello and Ye Hired Band is that Ritornello is local and we
> >> > haven¹t made any CDs yet. We practice ahead of time. We aren¹t an open
> >> > pit. Etc. Etc. If we were an open pit, it¹d be different. Also, the
> >> > Pittsfield Open Band, a local community band that plays for contra
> >> > dances and is very comparable to Ritornello gets /paid/ to play for
> >> > said contra dances. We¹re not suggesting that Ritornello get paid, but
> >> > simply that if someone in the band is only coming to play for the
> >> > evening, that they shouldn¹t have to pay to do that. If they go to
> >> > classes during the day then they should pay since they¹re now a
> >> > participant.
> >> >
> >> > SUMMARY
> >> > To sum up, I think we should comp volunteers at our niche events. I
> >> > don¹t think we should comp volunteers at generalist events. I think
> >> > who we comp at niche events should be worked out ahead of time so that
> >> > the everyone finds it fair. Also, niche events are awesome and I¹m so
> >> > glad we do them.
> >> > _______________________________________________
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> >> > Barony at cynnabar.org
> >> > http://lists.cynnabar.org/listinfo/barony
> >>
> >>
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> >
> >
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